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It keeps there citizens content by keeping families together. By creating a nice ambionse on ships. By given them the option to see the Galxy and stay with there families on exploration ships.

*sigh*

We have gone over this already.
Having civilians and children on warships is the height of stupidity. Do you really think the crew will be content knowing their family is in constant danger? We keep families off modern warships for a reason

And we have gone over that I and the other who agree with me don't consider them warships or that they are in constant danger.

This is a matter of opinion. There are no more facts to be debated so this is just one of the things people disagree on.

Firstly they are warships. We went over that as well.

But if you wish to end this debate then I don't mind.

These are the times the E-D (from series 4 onwards; I don't have 1-3) was sent into a battle - and yes, I have gone through all episodes:

Best of Both Worlds - absolutely unavoidable, civilians would have died whether they were on the ship, on a planet, or on a starbase, or on a purpose built science vessel with no weapons, as you want.
The Wounded - arguable. Not even sent into battle but told to bring back the Phoenix/Maxwell.
Preemptive Strike - I'll give you this one, but there was no threat to the E-D from a few small maquis vessles.

So it was sent into battle 3 times by Starfleet in 4 years! One of those it wouldn't matter if she was a Starfleet vessel or exploratory vessel - BoBW. One of them wasn't an order to battle but to escort a ship back, The Wounded. And one of them posed no threat, and the actual battle never even happened!

So it has been ordered to an avoidable battle twice (where one was no threat) by Starfleet, in four years. If that counts as a battleship/warship then I'm flabbergasted.

I take it you missed all those Galaxy class ships fighting in the Dominion war?
And the fact remains that they are called upon to play the role of a warship.

Rochey wrote:I take it you missed all those Galaxy class ships fighting in the Dominion war?

I take it you missed that all those Galaxy class ships fighting in the Dominion war had no civilians on board.
It is called upon to play a warship once - in the Wounded. BoBW is unavoidable, and Preemptive Strike it was already there and had only one chance, besides it been in no danger.
You think that been called to battle once makes it a warship, when every cannon thing we have seen and heard on screen says its not?

I take it you missed that all those Galaxy class ships fighting in the Dominion war had no civilians on board.

I was replying to:

You wrote:So it has been ordered to an avoidable battle twice (where one was no threat) by Starfleet, in four years. If that counts as a battleship/warship then I'm flabbergasted.

You can't look at the history of one ship and declare its not a warship, when we have cannon evidence (DS9) of them being used as a front line warship. I could look at the ships of the Irish navy and see that they have never been involved in any battles at all, does this mean they are not warships?
And I said already that Starfleet seemed to get its act together (slightly) during the war. The fact remains that, even in peacetime, civilians on a warship is a bad idea.

You think that been called to battle once makes it a warship, when every cannon thing we have seen and heard on screen says its not?

No, I conclude its a warship by looking at the fact that

a) It is often deployed along military borders.
b) It is often called upon to defend Federation planets.
c) It is often called upon to engage enemy warships.
d) It is often called upon to engage in fleet actions.
e) We have the episode where the crew lose their memory and conclude by looking at the ships capabilities and armament that the ship is a warship.

All of the above are cannon. And all of the above support the idea that the Galaxy class is a warship, in spite of its other roles.

The Enterprise was sent into a potential battle on numerous occassions, not just the ones Thorin's mentioned.

The Last Outpost - sent after a bunch of Ferengi thieves.
Angel One - sent to confront a Romulan fleet.
The Neutral Zone - sent to investigate a presumed Romulan attack.
The Survivors - sent to the aid of an attacked colony.
The Enemy - on patrol along the Neutral Zone
The Defector - patrolling the Neutral Zone.
Best of Both Worlds - already mentioned, although how it was safer to be aboard the Enterprise I've no idea - planet's starbases and science ships weren't being ordered after the cube.
Suddenly Human - patrolling the boarder of a hostile power.
The Wounded - already mentioned
Redemption - led a fleet to the Romulan-Klingon boarder.
Chain of Command - sent to confront the Cardassians (and would have been the sector command ship if war had broken out).
Face of the Enemy - patrolling the Neutral Zone.
Timescape - patrolling the Neutral Zone.
Descent - sent after the Borg.
All Good Things - sent to the Neutral Zone again.

As you can see, numerous incidents that could have resulted in a battle.

During the Dominion war all those Galaxy class ships had no Civilians on them. They were stripped down for combat.

As I said, Starfleet seems to have some sense during war. The fact remains that on all the ocasions Seafort listed, the civilians on board were put at risk for no benefit to the ship.

Yes during those specific times of combat they were not helpful in the least. More of a hinderence. But during the vast majority of the time when not in combat they have all the benifits previously stated.

Teaos wrote:Yes during those specific times of combat they were not helpful in the least. More of a hinderence. But during the vast majority of the time when not in combat they have all the benifits previously stated.

So it's alright to pack the ship with civilians because it isn't going to be sent into battle most of the time? They've only worried about the risk to civilians enough to get them out of harms way twice - in Farpoint and Arsenal of Freedom. Other than those two occassions the risk has never even been mentioned. This is quite apart from the fact that the Enterprise regularly ran into various dangerous phenomena, be it Q, whirpools in space, time distortions, aggressive life forms, superstrings, or various nebulae. The ship was actually destroyed several times, but thanks to time-travel of varying descriptions managed to undo its destruction. Would you be happy to have your familly on a ship that kept running into these things.

As I said awhile ago you have more chance of dieing in a car crash. And considering I let my family in cars yes i would let them in the Starship.

Teaos wrote:As I said awhile ago you have more chance of dieing in a car crash.

False analogy. The risk of death while traveling by car is negligible, relative to their utility, and can be reduced further by good crash protection, seatbelts, etc.

The stationing of civilian personnel aboard starships, however, is not negligible relative to their utility. They are merely deadweight, there because of a Starfleet belief that their presence significantly improves crew performance. This belief is utter nonsense because real life warships perfectly well without having families aboard, as did Federation starships of Kirk's day. Their removal would not cause the ship to cease functioning, and would remove a) the risk of a crewman abandoning his duties during a crisis to check on his family's safety and b) the number of people killed if the ship were to be lost.