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Reliant121 wrote:I didn't want to do it in the first place, going right back to the changing into a dictatorship. But I had little option.

And that was to save another players hiney I might add.

Hence the problem. When you go to your representative government and say we did this to save another nations reputation...well they could care less. So they tried to remove you and replace you (you would still have run things, just under a new name) to go back to how you had set them up to want to be.

Everyone should remember, 95% of what you are doing needs to be about what is right for your people. They could care less about others.

All fine and dandy for an IC perspective but that last sentence then gets a bit...well, unfair because of how it affects the game OOC.

I say unfair in particular because there are two options which lead to the same outcome.

Option 1: Do the conversion as I did as I am being OOC fair to a player whose already had a lot of shit unloaded on his door in the games past. Then, by your decision, I am left fighting what is virtually a civil war. I have to make more and more extreme decisions to maintain control of the empire. Now it's entirely realistic and I accept that entirely. But, IMO, being a game there should be a level when realism is curbed for the fact that we're meant to enjoy the game. And, in all honesty the game is not particularly enjoyable for me at the moment.

Option 2: Oust the government, remain a democracy, and not only does all diplomacy fall apart with other nations but it will probably mean said other player gets utterly mullered. Because of whats happened in the past, coupled to this, it now ceases to be even remotely enjoyable to him.

Now feel free for other players whatever to see me just bitching and moaning which no doubt many will, but I personally feel that the games priority should be enjoyment not absolute realism.

IMO, don't worry about the other player. They may have plenty of fun getting pummeled, or whatever. I, for example, thoroughly enjoyed getting creamed in a war with Deep... and was sort of looking forward to it again a few turns back. That seems to have changed for the moment, since the Klingons currenty don't have a reason to skin us.



Now, stupid question, do imports and exports both take up trade points, or only exports... I've never bothered to check.

I dunno, maybe It's a personal principles thing. It simply doesn't seem...right.

Sorry for beating on you so bad Reliant, I just enjoy a good rant now and again.

No no no. it's not a problem.

I'm simply not built very well for arguments

The priority is that people enjoy things but there have to be consequences for actions, otherwise it is just without meaning. And people have to play a role or things just fall apart. And there are going to be winners and loosers in the end. That is the nature of the beast. The next time we do it everyone can learn and do things differently and possibly emerge as the winners.

The Ferengi when they went into civil war were like the 4th largest trading power in the game. They had 1 loan outstanding for a small amount and had no goods worth selling to people. Simply put that was not being very Ferengi and the game economics simply don't function without them being a major player in trade and finance. There had been warning after warning that such things were going to lead to eventual disaster. The Ferengi now dwarf other powers in terms of trade, have like 60 million in outstanding loans and are making tens of millions selling warships to various powers, as well as other technical items. And its not even about them being all that important, because they are not. Its about driving economic growth in the game and making trade an important source of potential conflict among powers.

If the Ferengi don't expand business opportunity they will collapse.

If the Federation government messes with democratic government it will collapse.

If the Klingon leader does not act honorably his government is likely to collapse.

There are always consequences and they have never been thrown at people without a large amount of fore warning.

And that is not a criticism of Nick. I think he fits very well where he is now and would have fit a more invovled power better. He wants to be invovled in diplomacy and short of defending their commercial interst that is just not something the Ferengi would care about. It was more a mistake on my part of not describing what was needed by that player well ahead of time and honestly if I did this again the Ferengi would be a non-player race from the outset because they are just not that interesting to run if you are doing it right. You chase money, which means others largely determine who your friends are going to be. You don't really determine much and don't care much about high politics.

As for your situation I am not trying to make it not enjoyable...but you made a decision to overthrow a representative government. That has consequences that have to be dealt with over time but it does not mean they cannot be handled eventually.

The best I can tell everyone is to take nothing here personally. If someone screws you over in the game that is not a reflection on real life. They are just playing a character. Frankly if a Romulan, Ferengi or Breen is not trying to screw you over then they are not playing the role they should be playing. The next time we try this you likely end up with different powers and different allies all together.

stitch626 wrote:IMO, don't worry about the other player. They may have plenty of fun getting pummeled, or whatever. I, for example, thoroughly enjoyed getting creamed in a war with Deep... and was sort of looking forward to it again a few turns back. That seems to have changed for the moment, since the Klingons currenty don't have a reason to skin us.



Now, stupid question, do imports and exports both take up trade points, or only exports... I've never bothered to check.

Exports only. Basically you produce X amounts of exportable goods. The best way to maximize your income is to get the most imports back in exchange for that.

Hey Reliant, if you ever need encouragement in a IU discussion, you could always ask someone to look over a copy of your post before you post it, if that would help.

Or just ask for some. Cause right now, I think the whole psycho dictator thing is kinda cool. Though to be honest, I see him being shot soon, probably by a top aid... or an agent of another power.

Or by himself.

I keep telling myself that the enjoyment should come from being able to do anything and explain it as a mad dictator. But, as weak as it sounds, I find it difficult doing it.

Well, I went through many different Praetors... one was assassinated because he could not lead militarily (aka I wasn't awake during the war hehe)

The other part of it to is that even though there are consequences it can and should be enjoyable...even if you Royaly F things up and your power gets pummeled back to the stone age, between the ability to create powers both in this and in the Beta SIM there is always a place for everyone to start up again.

BigJKU316 wrote:Exports only. Basically you produce X amounts of exportable goods. The best way to maximize your income is to get the most imports back in exchange for that.

That's a bit... odd. Usually importing more than you export is a good way to send all your money overseas. Is the idea that you're trading goods as in literal trade?

I can tell you little bro, I'm loving the mad dictator thing. You've created the guys everyone loves to hate. It's kind of cool, because while the "good guys" want to relatiate, they have to weigh that against the outright military consecuences of a war between galactic alliances.

If you read far enough back, in the IC thread, Deep and Stitch were at war and at each others throats. You bounce over to the OOC thread and they're laughing about it.

Me and Tsuki have been pitted against each other since the beginning of the game. We've been on the brink of war two or three times, but that's the Cardassians and the Breen, not Tsuki and me.

Like Big said, we've all got roles to play. The UFP is the "good guys". They are limited by morality and the prime directive.

The Klingons, so long as Martok is in charge have to act "honerably" and in the best interests of the empipre, but still as a warrior race. Now, if Deep had the Duras clan take over, they would have been some evil bastards.

Stitch and Nick had alot of problems because they were trying to be Fed types. Stitch got the hang of it, and reformed his entire government. Nick lost the Ferengi, but now he pretty much gets to invent the Sheliak as he goes, as we know almost nothing about his government.

Tsuki's got a militarily agressive race....and thats what he's playing, hence the alliance with the Klingons.

By the time I took over the Cardassians, they had reformed to a democratic government, and with as much support as the were getting from the UFP, it natural they'd begin to take on certain traits. But you can't erase the Cardassian cunning nauture and they're natural expansionists, so I have to balance that. Plus, my government fell apart on me too.

The Tholians in Alpha SIM were lost early on, and merged with the Gorn. As we only saw the Gorn once, in TOS (technically speaking) SG is on his own to flesh them out.

You have the unique oppertunity to create your race from scracth. You can litterally go any which way you like, with relative safety. Be a complete sonofabitch. It's different. We're all playing politics from established precepts. You GET to tell us all to fuck off, and this is what your doing.

Tyyr wrote:

BigJKU316 wrote:Exports only. Basically you produce X amounts of exportable goods. The best way to maximize your income is to get the most imports back in exchange for that.

That's a bit... odd. Usually importing more than you export is a good way to send all your money overseas. Is the idea that you're trading goods as in literal trade?

In regards to what your government income is it goes up when you import more goods, because the importation of those goods is taxable. There are provisions for the GM to impose some economic penalties if things get way out of balance though as you stated here.