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Yes their is. Statistically there is bugger all chance of the civilians being at risk. Starfleet chooses to take that risk.

We all know that Starfleet wears rose-colored glasses most of the time. Unfortunately, thos glasses begin to crack during wartime.

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Teaos wrote:
But if you do that and form a seperate branch for science/exploration you face the problem we pointed out. Those ships have to be armed as well.


And then Starfleet would steal them and call to battle, then everyone on here would say that they shouldn't have civilians on them!

Yes, they would have to be able to defend themselves. But if there are two heirarchical organizations, what claim would the military arm have on the vessels of the science arm?

I'm not saying they could be called into combat. just that an enemy will target them no matter what.

And then Starfleet would steal them and call to battle, then everyone on here would say that they shouldn't have civilians on them!

While I've agreed that those ships would have to have some defensive capability, the "military" Starfleet would have no claim on the ships of the "exploratory" Starfleet.

Exactly.
I would have no problem with military Starfleet commandeering armed civilian ships for a reserve force if a war starts to go disastrously. My problem is they are using these ships as a front line force!

You are perfectly correct, Rochey. And now we're back to the design ethic... because we have ships meant to serve double duty, we have ships which are OK at many things, but very good at nothing!

Indeed. There is a reason we have so many different types of ships today.

While it may not seem like the best idea you have to remember that it has been that way for the last 100 years and during that time the Federation has beaten everything thrown at it.

Now look at the Klingons and Cardassians. They build pure war ships like you want yet we have staed on top of them consistantly.

Seems like Starfleets idea works better than the pure military one.

Seems like Starfleets idea works better than the pure military one.

Not from the viewpoint of NOT endangering civilians...

There over all ship building policy has kept them on top.

If they changed to the Klingon way of building military ships they may not be on top... think off all the civilian lives we could have lost then...

They keep themselves on top through superior technology. No other AQ race could challenge the Federation alone because of 1) its size 2) its resources and 3) its technology. They do not keep on top because they put civilians on their front line ships, they keep on top because no one else can chalenge them.
The Federation being all powerfull does not mean it is okay to put civilians in needless danger.

They have the best tehnology (In some areas not all) because they are a free society. They treat everyone the same and keep their people happy. It all ties together. Civilians on ships are just one part of a big picture whihc makes the Federation great.

By making their citizens happy and content they continue to be number one and push themselves.

Other power either now or in the near past have been our size or bigger yet be survived and beat them all.

They have the best tehnology (In some areas not all) because they are a free society. They treat everyone the same and keep their people happy. It all ties together. Civilians on ships are just one part of a big picture whihc makes the Federation great.

Er, what? The Federation treats everyone the same, so they put civilians on warships and then sends them in to get shot at? That makes no sense whatsoever. Technology can advance without the need to kill your own civilians off, thats supposed to be the job of your enemy.

The US has some of the most advanced technology on the planet, do they send civilians in on warships? No, because they realise how stupid this is.

By making their citizens happy and content they continue to be number one and push themselves.

And they keep their citizens happy and content by putting them in the middle of a warzone?

Other power either now or in the near past have been our size or bigger yet be survived and beat them all.

Through technology, not by having non combatants on warships.

The US navy doesn't send civilians on its warships because their primary roles are not as explorers.
When have civilians been in the middle of a warzone? Were they not offloaded during war?

The US navy doesn't send civilians on its warships because their primary roles are not as explorers.

Because the US navy is also smart enough not to build warships and send them off exploring. Starfleet routinely sends ships with civilians on board into combat situations. It does seem that they gained some common sense and stopped doing this during the Dominon war, but we've seen it plenty of times before.

When have civilians been in the middle of a warzone? Were they not offloaded during war?

See above.
And I'll say again that having civilians on warships is idiotic.