What is the 23rd Century Starfleet?

[Deepcrush]

Guys, you don't get it. It has nothing to do with the ship. It has to do with him begging for attention and you're giving him all he can soak up. As long as you care about what he says, he'll continue to act like this. He's just like the kids I work with. Cradle them and they'll cry all day long.

[Aaron]

Guys, you don't get it. It has nothing to do with the ship. It has to do with him begging for attention and you're giving him all he can soak up. As long as you care about what he says, he'll continue to act like this. He's just like the kids I work with. Cradle them and they'll cry all day long.

I usually just glaze over his posts because there simply too long winded, however I find myself intrigued that someone could argue for a whole new class based on a single line of dialogue.

[Deepcrush]

Again, he's a just someone out to beg for some love (or punishment, whatever gets his rocks off).

[Aaron]

*shrug* Nah, I think it's just his default stance.

[DSG2k]

Also, flaming +1.

Wow, your skin must be paper thin if you consider that to be flaming.

So identifying bad debate behavior is evidence of thin skin? When did that start?

Then why reject the idea for one when it is the only way to avoid intracanonical contradiction? Why is it that then, all of the sudden, no other classes exist?

You're just not listening at all are you? No one has said that but you.

You're not even paying attention to your own statements. Your side (specifically Stitch, I believe) made that claim, and you defended him when I pointed out the illogic of it. If you stand with the target . . .

His words do not in any way preclude a Connie being at Wolf 359

I've explained why they do (and why other facts do) repeatedly, and you have ignored it.

There have been several suggestions made

None of which make any sense, all of which require unbelievable activity. Whereas a ship design using the forward portion of the Constitution engineering hull is considered by you guys to be some sort of capital sin, despite being far more rational by comparison given the half-dozen ships using Connie parts.

You guys even claim the class is fully active!

Again, strawman. No one has claimed that the class is fully active.[/quote]

Stop lying. Stitch claimed the class is operable during TNG. That means the class is active (i.e. not retired and stricken). And you defended the claim, declaring that I was refusing to accept the implications of its presence. Don't blame me if you can't keep your own positions straight.

You're just trolling now. That's the precise opposite of my position, and you well know that.

Given that you're the only person advancing the claim it must be your position. No one here has claimed it.

Stop lying. You know good and well you're defending the claim that the class is active as of TNG. My god, you're claiming one was considered battle-worthy there!

the scenarios we presented couldn't possibly jive with what Picard said

Already demonstrated, thanks.

[DSG2k]

Then show me how you frigging imagine this whole new conjured ship then?

Okay, Say I take the badge and boot lid from an old Ford Cortina in the middle of a desert. Are you suggesting that someone comes along and says "obviously it's not a Cortina, they haven't been around for decades. it must be something else?"

That's a faulty analogy. We're not talking about car parts in a desert, we're talking about car parts being recovered from a crash on a highway, from a car manufacturer that's always reusing part designs.

If there haven't been any of Model X in decades, but they always reuse other parts (even to the point of the warp core . . . er, engines . . . being moved about and whatnot), then why are you guys freaking out about the idea that the car parts aren't from Model X, but Model Y that you personally are ignorant of?

[Aaron]

DSG2K, if we assume that the Connie hull we saw was indeed a Connie, we know jack and shit about it. For all we know it could be a training ship or a supply vessel ala the Lantree. We all know that SF was pulling everything they could to 359.

[Deepcrush]

*shrug* Nah, I think it's just his default stance.

No wonder he got kicked from ISDN.

[stitch626]

Stop lying. Stitch claimed the class is operable during TNG. That means the class is active (i.e. not retired and stricken).

No I never said they were active. I said that the debris that looked like a Connie was a Connie. All that requires is that an incomplete ship which had parts lying around was snapped together to add a few weapons for combat, or simply a mothballed ship being fueled and ready for combat.

It does not require the ship to be active at any time until that battle.

[stitch626]

You are incorrect.

TOS saucers: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/sftm.htm
TMP saucers: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/ds9tm.htm

That's a lot of Constitution saucer usage, as well as nacelle usage. I'm counting at least five different classes or variations. And we can't forget the Miranda either, can we? That's six.

None of the ships that make use of the TOS Connie hull are canon, and therefore do not exist in Trek. I'm not sure which ship has the TMP Connie saucer, so if you could point it out by name, that would be helpful.

[DSG2k]

Is this argument seriously about whether the Connie hull we see at Wolf 359 was an actual Connie or a previously unseen class?

At this point, it's about me refusing to surrender to these people. You've seen that before.

And it's based entirely on Picard's Relics line?

No. You're so three pages ago. Picard, Trek VI, and all the other related details pointing to Constitution Class ships being bye-bye.

[DSG2k]

Stop lying. Stitch claimed the class is operable during TNG. That means the class is active (i.e. not retired and stricken).

No I never said they were active.

Semantic gamesmanship.

I said that the debris that looked like a Connie was a Connie. All that requires is that an incomplete ship which had parts lying around was snapped together to add a few weapons for combat, or simply a mothballed ship being fueled and ready for combat.

It does not require the ship to be active at any time until that battle.

Oh good lord, now you think they built a complete Constitution for Wolf 359? But not that it's remotely possible they built something else with Constitution-looking parts?

[DSG2k]

*shrug* Nah, I think it's just his default stance.

No wonder he got kicked from ISDN.

Curse those phone lines!

[stitch626]

Semantic gamesmanship.

About as semantic as red and blue.

Oh good lord, now you think they built a complete Constitution for Wolf 359? But not that it's remotely possible they built something else with Constitution-looking parts?

Put together, not built. There is an enormous difference. Though even that isn't the likeliest of options. I was just pointing out that it is not fact that no source of a Connie existed.

[DSG2k]

You are incorrect.

TOS saucers: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/sftm.htm
TMP saucers: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/ds9tm.htm

That's a lot of Constitution saucer usage, as well as nacelle usage. I'm counting at least five different classes or variations. And we can't forget the Miranda either, can we? That's six.

None of the ships that make use of the TOS Connie hull are canon, and therefore do not exist in Trek. I'm not sure which ship has the TMP Connie saucer, so if you could point it out by name, that would be helpful.

I gave you the links, and you lie to the faces of all. All those vessels are canon, because they are seen on screen, whether on shipboard computers (what, you think someone was photoshopping on the bridge?) or in live-action.

You guys are getting more desperately dishonest with each passing post. It's truly astonishing to watch.