The Motion Picture

[Sionnach Glic]

Fair point.

[Mark]

Ok....I can except your cases for the Oberth class being there. Now, on to why Starfleet only had 40 ships in range to defend Earth against an incursion????? And for the most part, pretty weak ships. The toughest thing the fielded was a Nebula class IIRC.

[Graham Kennedy]

Well how many warships are generally located in New York harbour?

[Mark]

No clue. But how many could be within distance to defend New York Harbor if a HUGE ship sailed overseas to attack it, though?

[Mikey]

Depends, are we talking about one which was capable of far outpacing any of the defenders?

I have been critical in the past of the lack of a "core" fleet, considering how important Earth seemed to be to the UFP. But GK's right - it wasn't just that the Borg were on their way; it was that the Borg were capable of faster flight than anything in Starfleet.

[Mark]

Good point.....I forgot about that. Likely were ALOT more ships on the way, just couldn't get there in time.

[Sionnach Glic]

Indeed. If you have the option of getting a bunch of Oberths to help defend the most important planet you have or get no reinforcements at all, then you're going to just bite the bullet and take the things in the hope that they'll do something of use.

[Nickswitz]

If all else fails you can fly the Oberths into the Borg Cube in last shot of desperation. It wouldn't do much but could be the thing needed to blow the Cube up, and then the captain is a war hero, so he wins either way, sort of. He's dead, but he still get's some praise after the battle.

[Graham Kennedy]

I have to say, arguing against my own point, that the cases are a bit different. The US knows that no naval force could attack New York for several reasons. One, there's few navies with the actual capability to send a warship there at all. Two, most of those who can are allies. Three, the US has surveillance of one kind or another over a good deal of the Earth's oceans, and would have a good chance of spotting something like that early and intercepting it before it ever got close. And lastly, the US is a power militarily superior to about the next ten in line combined. Anybody who DID launch an open military attack on New York would be committing national suicide, and they know it.

A lot of that may apply to the standard enemies of the Federation. I don't doubt that if a Galor tried to launch an attack on Earth it would get its ass handed to it before it ever got there, as would a whole fleet of them.

BUT. There is a long history in the Federation of some super ship turning up out of the blue and rushing up on Earth really fast. V'Ger did it, the Whale probe did it, the Borg did it repeatedly. If that happened to New York, I expect that they would actually decide to do something about it after the third or fourth time and station a fleet, or heavy defences of some kind there.

And joy of joys, the last time a Borg ship showed up at Earth a big fleet was waiting right there for it. Woo hoo!

[Nickswitz]

It's a miracle. Starfleet learned!

[Captain Seafort]

*snip*

Given the performance of Starfleet during TNG and early DS9, when the ships available to defend Earth could be counted on one hand, I've no doubt that even a single Galor attacking the solar system directly could inflict massive damage before it was eventually caught and destroyed. The problem it would have wouldn't be the solar system's defences, but those along the DMZ, and any Starfleet ships likely within intercept range along the route. That's where the Federation's defences were concentrated - out on the borders. The problem was that fast opponents such as the Borg could simply bypass those defences.

[Graham Kennedy]

Given the performance of Starfleet during TNG and early DS9, when the ships available to defend Earth could be counted on one hand, I've no doubt that even a single Galor attacking the solar system directly could inflict massive damage before it was eventually caught and destroyed. The problem it would have wouldn't be the solar system's defences, but those along the DMZ, and any Starfleet ships likely within intercept range along the route. That's where the Federation's defences were concentrated - out on the borders. The problem was that fast opponents such as the Borg could simply bypass those defences.

I agree completely that most Federation forces would be on the DMZ, the RNZ, etc. But Sol/Earth DOES have defences, and I can't imagine they wouldn't be up to a single Galor.

[Captain Seafort]

I'm not so sure. Even as far back as the early part of Generations, the E-B was the only ship in range of the Nexus while it was passing through the system. Likewise, in "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" the Lakota was the only ship available to deploy Starfleet security across the planet. Earth up to the 2370s was reliant on any ships that happened to be present rather than any dedicated Home Fleet - the static defences were limited to the (somewhat unsuccessful) Mars Defence Perimeter. If a strong ship happeed to be in the right place at the right time then the planet and the system would probably be safe. If not then it would be in very serious trouble.

[Mark]

Now there is planning for you. And foresight.

[Graham Kennedy]

Well the MDP was only seen in action briefly, and then against the Borg; hardly a good way to judge what it would do to a more conventional threat. And we only saw seconds of the action. For all we know the Borg wiped out dozens or hundreds of the things that we didn't see.

As for Earth defences, we know they exist in TMP. Whether they do in other times is open to question. Maybe, maybe not.