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Captain Seafort wrote:

SolkaTruesilver wrote:I also think that sending a terrorist to help shape up a terrorist organisation from within the Cardassian Union to challenge the Dominion was a complete violation of the Prime Directive, as it was meddling with their internal affairs.

On the contrary - the Federation was providing support to an insurgency created by and led by the head of the Cardassian government against an occupying power

Not to forget influencing a sovereign government's decision to break their neutrality agreement with your enemy.

Not a purely internal matter, as it related directly to the foreign relations of the Romulan Empire

Warning the Cardassians of the incoming Klingons...

Not a purely internal matter, as it related directly to the foreign relations of the Cardassian Union. It was stupid, but it wasn't a PD violation.

Good points. I guess it really starts to stretch when you want to apply "purely internal matters" to the mix..

I get to think... has there been a single instance the words "Prime Directive" been applied in DS9 (except the Pilot)? I mean, beside "Temporal Prime Directive" when time travel shennanigans happened?

(On that comment, I want to see Chuck review Past Tense)

The issue with the Klingon Civil War was that it was considered an "Internal Matter" and thus the PD forbids "interference in the natural events of a race" until proven otherwise. That's why Picard had to prove the Romulans were involved. It would both allow Federation support of Gowron and wreck the Klingon support that the Duras had built up.

IIRC the Prime Directive specifically refers to the natural development of a species. The Klingon Civil war could be seen in such a light, which is why Starfleet was only able to block Romulan aid to one specific faction.

The Klingon invasion of Cardassia was something completely different though. That was an intersteller matter, totally outside the perview of the PD. Had it been a simple Cardassian civil war, the UFP would have had to stay out of it.

All right. So I ask again, 'cause I can't seem to remember an instance of the Prime Directive being brought up.

Mark wrote:IIRC the Prime Directive specifically refers to the natural development of a species. The Klingon Civil war could be seen in such a light, which is why Starfleet was only able to block Romulan aid to one specific faction.

The Klingon invasion of Cardassia was something completely different though. That was an intersteller matter, totally outside the perview of the PD. Had it been a simple Cardassian civil war, the UFP would have had to stay out of it.

So, why didn't the Federation get involved with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor?

Tsukiyumi wrote:So, why didn't the Federation get involved with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor?

Because it was, at the time, an internal Cardassian matter.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Tsukiyumi wrote:So, why didn't the Federation get involved with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor?

Because it was, at the time, an internal Cardassian matter.

So Klingons invading Cardassia to occupy it isn't a Klingon internal matter.
Cardassian occupying Bajor is a Cardassian internal matter.

....

I HATE TREK POLITICS

SolkaTruesilver wrote:So Klingons invading Cardassia to occupy it isn't a Klingon internal matter.
Cardassian occupying Bajor is a Cardassian internal matter.

....

I HATE TREK POLITICS

It's everyone else's politics as well. An invasion is (obviously) not an internal matter. We're not talking about an invasion when it comes to Bajor - the occupation was a fait accompli.

Captain Seafort wrote:

SolkaTruesilver wrote:So Klingons invading Cardassia to occupy it isn't a Klingon internal matter.
Cardassian occupying Bajor is a Cardassian internal matter.

....

I HATE TREK POLITICS

It's everyone else's politics as well. An invasion is (obviously) not an internal matter. We're not talking about an invasion when it comes to Bajor - the occupation was a fait accompli.

Since Cardassian might have made First Contact with the Federation as far as the 22nd century, as a Cardassian exile was living on Vulcan at the time, and since the Occupation only lasted 50 years, I'd guess the invasion occured and the Federation could have been aware of it.

Although, the other possibility, if I remember my Occupation History, the initial annexation actually occured over a large period of time. Cardi/Bajoran relations were relatively peaceful, with the Cardassian offering some military presence on their planet. The thing is, the Cardassian progressively increased said presence, until they decided to outright annex the planet. They used the age-old strategy of presenting themselves as benefactor to subversaly (gram?) take control. So.. technically, at the time of the annexation, the Bajorans were considered to be Cardassian's protectorate, and thu any change in Bajoran/Cardassian relations were strictly internal Cardassian matters.

Actually, I think the UFP did decide to take a hands-off approach to the Klingon invasion of Cardassia - it was just Sisko that didn't.

Mikey wrote:Actually, I think the UFP did decide to take a hands-off approach to the Klingon invasion of Cardassia - it was just Sisko that didn't.

True, but I think it's strongly debatable whether that was due to the PD or not wanting to piss off their allies too badly. Sisko's intervention, and the considerably more effective than otherwise Cardie resistance, really upset the apple cart.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Mikey wrote:Actually, I think the UFP did decide to take a hands-off approach to the Klingon invasion of Cardassia - it was just Sisko that didn't.

True, but I think it's strongly debatable whether that was due to the PD or not wanting to piss off their allies too badly. Sisko's intervention, and the considerably more effective than otherwise Cardie resistance, really upset the apple cart.

You think, if the Klingons had managed to completely surprise the Spoonheads and conquer them quickly (ergo: Sisko not intervening), they would not have overreacted as strongly as they did to the Federation Council's condemnation of the invasion?

SolkaTruesilver wrote:You think, if the Klingons had managed to completely surprise the Spoonheads and conquer them quickly (ergo: Sisko not intervening), they would not have overreacted as strongly as they did to the Federation Council's condemnation of the invasion?

No, I think that if the Klingons had overwhelmed the Cardies before the quadrant in general had had time to digest the news, the Feds probably wouldn't have complained as vociferously - there's little point in kicking up a stink about an issue that had already been decided. Unfortunately, with the Cardies still fighting and the Feds with a reputation as the local goody two shoes to uphold, they were left with little option put to protest loudly and publicly.

SolkaTruesilver wrote:

Captain Seafort wrote:

SolkaTruesilver wrote:So Klingons invading Cardassia to occupy it isn't a Klingon internal matter.
Cardassian occupying Bajor is a Cardassian internal matter.

....

I HATE TREK POLITICS

It's everyone else's politics as well. An invasion is (obviously) not an internal matter. We're not talking about an invasion when it comes to Bajor - the occupation was a fait accompli.

Since Cardassian might have made First Contact with the Federation as far as the 22nd century, as a Cardassian exile was living on Vulcan at the time, and since the Occupation only lasted 50 years, I'd guess the invasion occured and the Federation could have been aware of it.

Although, the other possibility, if I remember my Occupation History, the initial annexation actually occured over a large period of time. Cardi/Bajoran relations were relatively peaceful, with the Cardassian offering some military presence on their planet. The thing is, the Cardassian progressively increased said presence, until they decided to outright annex the planet. They used the age-old strategy of presenting themselves as benefactor to subversaly (gram?) take control. So.. technically, at the time of the annexation, the Bajorans were considered to be Cardassian's protectorate, and thu any change in Bajoran/Cardassian relations were strictly internal Cardassian matters.

I am guessing you are over thinking this issue. My guess is that when it happened the UFP had bigger things to worry about than some backwards planet being conquered by the Cardassians. We only see it when the deed is already done and at that point it is both an internal matter for the Cardassians and pretty much impossible to change the situation short of starting a war.

If the UFP had encountered the Cardassians that early, then there would be either the Romulan War to contend with or later, the ongoing and lengthy cold war style conflict with the Klingons.