Without Vulcan

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, the Vulcans do indeed seem to have more than a small dose of racism in the Abramsverse. Not surprising, as they'd undoubtedly see themselves as being more "enlightened" than other races.

I can see them wanting to have a planet to call their own. It'd undoubtedly start as a minor colony (hell, there may already be Vulcan colony worlds ready to become the new capital), growing slowly as the population increases.

[Atekimogus]

Well I am surprised by those comments to be honest. The abramsverse vulcans seemed pretty normal to me and I wouldn't view the whole race as racist douchebags just because of one comment from an idiot and a few children.

Also I am a bit surprised that some would think 10.000 odd vulcans on earth would lead to diturbances. Considering a vulcan embassy on earth and I think a vulcan quarter somewhere in sanfrancisco was once mentioned in ent I would think that a few thousand vulcans where on earth prior to their homeworlds demise already.

Also I would hope that 24 century earth is developed enough that such a small number of foreigners wouldn't stretch earths resources to a degree where they automatically must all land in a ghetto. Hell, 10.000 people is a joke, you could probably just book rooms in hotels for them.

On another note, I find it interesting that they would settle a new planet. Don't they have a suitable colony somewhere which they could adapt as their new home? This would also make much more sense than starting at zero on a completly new planet.

[Mikey]

Also I am a bit surprised that some would think 10.000 odd vulcans on earth would lead to diturbances. Considering a vulcan embassy on earth and I think a vulcan quarter somewhere in sanfrancisco was once mentioned in ent I would think that a few thousand vulcans where on earth prior to their homeworlds demise already.

Also I would hope that 24 century earth is developed enough that such a small number of foreigners wouldn't stretch earths resources to a degree where they automatically must all land in a ghetto. Hell, 10.000 people is a joke, you could probably just book rooms in hotels for them.

Well, nobody said disturbacnes would occur. And perhaps I used too strong a word when I said "ghetto," but obviously if Earth is their semi-permanent residence - and given their general disdain for humans - they would naturally group together in a "Vulcan-town" or some similar type of cloister. You ask why they wouldn't just settle on Earth in that manner, I'm asking why they would.

On another note, I find it interesting that they would settle a new planet. Don't they have a suitable colony somewhere which they could adapt as their new home? This would also make much more sense than starting at zero on a completly new planet.

Probable but not definite. They were certainly a colonial power as of ENT, though the one mentioned specifically was later contested by the Andorians and its eventual disposition was, IIRC, never made clear.

[Atekimogus]

Well, nobody said disturbacnes would occur. And perhaps I used too strong a word when I said "ghetto," but obviously if Earth is their semi-permanent residence - and given their general disdain for humans -

Well thats what I don't really understand, they certainly were douchebags in ENT but in the TOS era? Just because Spock gets s**t from a few kids and one minister acting superior? I would imagine if he would have been raised on earth children would likewise make fun of him because of his elf-ears. I mean somewhere they went from closest allies to "general disdain for humans"...did I miss something?

You ask why they wouldn't just settle on Earth in that manner, I'm asking why they would.

Well because it would make sense, wouldn't it? You lost most of your people and, in spocks own words, you are an endangered species so where do you regroup? Probably somewhere where it is as save as possible and not somewhere where extinction is just one earthquake, flood, plague away.
Now we do not know the demographies of the survivers but how many of the 10.000 are doctors for example? Enough to care for the other survivors? Highly unlikely imho but on earth they could make use of the infrastructure already there and in fact more easily concentrate on developing another world since they wouldn't need to worry as much about basic needs. Later on I would imagine they would migrate slowly to the new world as it becomes more and more self-sufficient.

[Nickswitz]

Well, as was said before, they found a place that was suitable as a homeworld.

Vulcans have a great deal of pride, whether they want to admit it or not they do. Which means they will look to their own devices to "fix" their race.

[Mikey]

Well thats what I don't really understand, they certainly were douchebags in ENT but in the TOS era?

Yes. It seems you're thinking that someone mentioned hatred or at least antipathy, which nobody did. However, they have consistently shown a degree of hubris and impatience towards humanity, and a definite air of smugness and superiority over their self-imposed emotional rigor. Have you seen the ending scene of every episode of TOS - featuring Spock, who of all Vulcans should be more tolerant of humanity?

Well because it would make sense, wouldn't it?

No, for the reasons I've delineated. If I thought it made sense, I wouldn't be questioning it.

Later on I would imagine they would migrate slowly to the new world as it becomes more and more self-sufficient.

I think that's the difference in our POV's. I think a pit stop on Earth might be in order (or, if extant, a current Vulcan colony) but I believe it would be a very brief one, not nearly long enough to be called residence at all.

[Tyyr]

Well thats what I don't really understand, they certainly were douchebags in ENT but in the TOS era? Just because Spock gets s**t from a few kids and one minister acting superior?

Because that's what you've got to go on. Now if you want to imagine that all Vulcans are really racially tolerant, even keeled, modest, people then go right ahead and think it but in the Abramsverse and even in the Prime universe that's now how Vulcans are. They are CONSISTENTLY smug, superior, boastful, bragging assholes. Spock was the most easy going of the bunch and he still had a solid tungsten rod up his ass.

Now we do not know the demographies of the survivers but how many of the 10.000 are doctors for example? Enough to care for the other survivors? Highly unlikely imho but on earth they could make use of the infrastructure already there and in fact more easily concentrate on developing another world since they wouldn't need to worry as much about basic needs. Later on I would imagine they would migrate slowly to the new world as it becomes more and more self-sufficient.

They could also contract the work out. The move to their new home and hire a few non-Vulcan doctors, or construction foremen, or janitors. Whatever it took for the moment to get back on their feet.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Oh gods, yes. Vulcans in Prime were gigantic assholes. Tuvok, Vorik... hell, barring Spock and maybe Sarek, was there a nice Vulcan in ST?

[Mark]

Sarek wasn't all that nice.


"He's so....HUMAN." (STV)

[Sonic Glitch]

Sarek wasn't all that nice.


"He's so....HUMAN." (STV)

[nitpick} Wasn't that Savvik, STII?

[Varthikes]

Sarek wasn't all that nice.


"He's so....HUMAN." (STV)

[nitpick} Wasn't that Savvik, STII?

Yes, Saavik also said it.

In 5, Sarek said it in the flashback to Spock's birth. That was Spock's pain.

[Sonic Glitch]

Sarek wasn't all that nice.


"He's so....HUMAN." (STV)

[nitpick} Wasn't that Savvik, STII?

Yes, Saavik also said it.

In 5, Sarek said it in the flashback to Spock's birth. That was Spock's pain.

Oh right. My mistake. I'm surprised I remember anything from ST V

[Tyyr]

If you think you remember ST:V you need to start drinking and make it go away.

[Sionnach Glic]

I'm surprised I remember anything from ST V

Yeah, you should probably do something about that.

[Mark]

"I picked a hell of a day to quit drinking."


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