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Nickswitz wrote:

Sionnach Glic wrote:Well if you want to look at it objectively, the logical point would be the point at which the brain begins to start taking control of the body.

Ah, that is an interesting way to look at it.

So, about when does that actually happen?

The brain and nervous system start working at around six months in limited ways. So that'd be the absolute last point at which I could imagine you could make a logical argument for aborting a fetus.

I would have to agree with Rochey. The moment, or period, when the mind begins to exert control over the autonomous functions, like movement the nervous system, Would be the point i'd say its begun to live as a separate entity from the mother.

Sionnach Glic wrote:Gah, there're too many of you lot to keep track of!

Tell me about it.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Mikey wrote:Don't forget that our worst textbook psychopaths, like Manson or Robert Stroud, were also geniuses...

Hey, don't forget me!

There is nothing 'textbook' about you hon. You're a true original.

That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me in a long time. Thank you.

@First one:

Probably legally recognized in Maryland now....

@Second one:

Just consider it a particularily late term abortion.

The hardest issue I have with the whole abortion thing is how a month changes the opinions of so many people from a right to choose to "f#&k 'em with a chainsaw" (not specifically refering to RK_Striker_JK_5 there it's just a good phrase to use ).

I waver on what I think about legalized abortion. But the part of me that supports it says that if you can have the kid tossed in a dumpster so you can play video games before they're born, you should be able to do so afterwards.

So if I wanted to kill someone on the street, it would be OK since that guy has a mother somewhere? This has nothing to do with abortion - it's murder.

Mikey wrote:So if I wanted to kill someone on the street, it would be OK since that guy has a mother somewhere? This has nothing to do with abortion - it's murder.

Wasn't your kid and you wouldn't be the mother in any case. (In reference to the guy on the street).

What I'm saying isn't so freakish. I know of a number of ancient societies where you could abondon young or newborns that you didn't want. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that tossing out born and breathing downs kids and such was standard across nearly every culture at least prior to the iron age, maybe later.

There are plenty of cultures which used to rape the women of a conquered area, too. Doesn't make it OK.

Sunny I'm going to go with, "Go to hell," on this one.

It is a murder plain and simple.

It doesn't strike you as a little odd that something goes from a meaningless hunk of cells to a precious and protected life by moving approximately five inches?

Granted I don't know your positions on the issue. If you think abortion is murder than obviously so is infanticide.

And yes this situation "feels" like a murder to me (or manslaughter at the least).

Sunny, the method you're using to make your point is in bad taste and not particularly tied to this story.

And illogical. Feelings on abortion are irrelevant; birth is an incontrovertible fact.

The difference between this child and a four month or so old fetus is that this child can think (to an extent) and feel pain. That does not hold true for a fetus, which does not even have a working brain.

The problem, Sunny, is that you're not acknowledging any middle ground here. What you're saying is that either you should be against both baby-killing and abortion or for both while not realising that there are perfectly valid reasons to accept one and not the other.

Also, this is a completely irrelevant and blatant thread hi-jacking. We have a thread specificaly set up for just this dicussion. Take it there.

To me, killing anyone be it unborn child or man with a knife coming into your home... is still murder. Its wrong, no matter how you twist it. The problem is that killing a child is rarely going to be a life or death matter for the other persons involved. Killing the man with a knife is another matter. While the murder is still a sin, it would also be a sin if I didn't stop him and I would be guilty for every murder he committed after that as I had the chance to stop him.

In recap, if there isn't a life or death factor. Then there is no reason for abortion. Again, this is all IMO.