Weapons and Warfare

[Mark]

Bad crushy!

[Deepcrush]

[Sonic Glitch]

Bad crushy!

"No no, don't do that. If you shoot him you'll just make him mad."

[Deepcrush]

[Lighthawk]

Alright, break it up, everyone back to your corner.

Okay, since it's already been brought up, submachine guns. Thoughts? You're giving up stopping power compared to a full sized weapon in exchange for ease of use in tight quarters. Is it worth it? How do they compare to our before meantioned shotguns in a building clearing? Are they good for more than just urban warefare?

[stitch626]

Well, they seem to be a favorite of TV terrorists.

[Lighthawk]

Well, they seem to be a favorite of TV terrorists.

Well I would imagine being easier to conceal would be a big plus for them

[colmquinn]

The a fore mentioned P90 is of course fantastic but I like the HK MP7
Similar idea with the P90 with its small caliber 4.7mm round for armour piercing.

[Tyyr]

Well a couple of 9mm bullets in the chest will kill you every bit as dead as a 5.56mm or .308 will.

There are two big drawbacks to a sub gun's choice of round. First, it's not going to be as good at going through body armor. Most body armor is going to stop a submachine guns' round. There are some exceptions but on the whole your average kevlar vest can let the target survive a shot form a submachine gun. The same can't be said from larger assault rifle rounds. The military uses some vests that can stop them but not usually at short range or from protracted bursts. Second, they don't have the range that a rifle does. With usually a third of the muzzle velocity of a rifle a submachine gun simply can't engage targets as distant or as accurately as a rifle can.

That said submachine guns have some strong advantages. First off they are typically more controllable than a rifle, especially larger rifles like a 7.62mm. That means you can put your bursts right where you want them. Second ammo is typically smaller and lighter letting you carry more rounds for the same mass. Third, SMGs are usually smaller than a even a carbine rifle which makes them handier in tight quarters. Forth, because of the lower velocity of their rounds they are far less likely to over penetrate.

All things considered in tight quarters against an unarmored opponent there's really no reason I see to take a rifle over an SMG unless there are other considerations like you're already carrying a rifle, like in the military.

[Mark]

Again, its a matter of the right tool for the right job. The submachine gun was designed for a specific role in combat. Now, I've fired several, including the 9mm Uzi, HK-MP5, and both 9mm and .45 MAC10. But I'm going with Deep on the .45 Thompson. Its the kind of weapon you need to know what the hell your doing and get any illusions about a long extended burst out of your head. With short controlled bursts the Tommy gun puts the kind of lead and power downrange that will tear somebody apart.

[Captain Seafort]

But I'm going with Deep on the .45 Thompson. Its the kind of weapon you need to know what the hell your doing and get any illusions about a long extended burst out of your head. With short controlled bursts the Tommy gun puts the kind of lead and power downrange that will tear somebody apart.

It depends what sort of situation you're in though - for a CT/hostage rescue op massive firepower could be counterproductive. In that situation, I doubt you could do better than the MP5 - it's extremely accurate, and low-powered enough that you'd just kill the bloke you're shooting at without risking anyone behind him. I can't off-hand think of any situation where you'd need serious firepower and consider an SMG a better choice than an assault rifle or carbine

[Deepcrush]

I think you misunderstand. We (or at least I was) were saying that the Tompson is a BAD choice weapon unless you're plan is to kill everything in sight.

[Captain Seafort]

Fair enough then. Out of curiosity, have you ever fired the MP5, and if so what are your thoughts on it?

[Deepcrush]

Fair enough then. Out of curiosity, have you ever fired the MP5, and if so what are your thoughts on it?

Yes, and I like it a lot. Really well balanced and the 9mm round means you can burst fire with similar aim that you normally carry from only a single shot off a .45 round.

[Mark]

However, the MP5 I fired jammed twice while putting a piddly 200 rounds downrange. And like Deep, I was referring to the sheer killing power of the weapon. If I needed something with a bit more precision, for say....a hostage rescue, I likely WOULD go with something from HK, but maybe not the MP5