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Well of the Starfleet crew, who is next after Tuvok?

Paris... not a real officer until Janeway made him one.

Kim?!

Well, you've got a ship full of generic LTs and JGs, but none of them department heads or bridge officers. I think Kim may actually BE the next ranking command officer

Yeah, on consideration it appears that you actually NEED Janeway at least around long enough to let the Maquis integrate into the crew.

That took what, 45 minutes on Voyager?

Mark wrote:I'm not seeing Carey make it either. At that point he was an enginners mate, and I see no evidence to support that he'd ever set foot on the bridge of a starship except replace a broken circut, much less have any command experience. Either Carey or Kim, you'd have to train from the ground up.

Again, time spent on the bridge is not what determines your position in the chain of command. Carey's not a great choice and is undoubtedly far down the line of succession, but he's the only realistic choice.

GrahamKennedy wrote:I have to think that the crew would know who Tuvok was. He was Janeway's tactical officer before his Maquis mission - that's why she had the job of going after him. So it's not like they picked up some unknown.

So Tuvok takes command. And the one time I remember Tuvok actually having command for a prolonged period, it ended in a mutiny against him. I can't imagine him as a successful captain, somehow.

Fair point. I'd forgotten that he'd served on Voyager before. In that case I can imagine he would indeed take command.

However, I can also easily see a mutiny starting up against him. The reason's simple: the logical action would be to replace Voyager's dead command staff with personel from the Maquis ship. However, I can't see the Federation crew just accepting a number of the enemy becoming their superior officers. There'd be resistance and a load of resentment, as those who feel that they should have been promoted to a command position (Eg, Carey) would feel like they're being slighted. They would stir discontent and anger amongst the crew, particularly as the weeks drag on with no sign of returning home quickly. The Maquis themselves would only exacerbate the situation. Undoubtedly a lot of them would relish having Federation officers under their command, and I can easily see some of the more petty ones sending Starfleet personel on frivolous and slightly demeaning tasks. As discontent amongst the crew begins to grow, the Maquis would seek to consolodate more power on the ship.

At some point a mutiny is going to occur. Either started by the original crew in an attempt to reclaim Voyager from the Maquis and Tuvok (who will be seen as a traitor) or by the Maquis deciding to off Tuvok (who is a traitor to them) in an effort to seize total control of the ship, which would simply serve to spark a revolution amongst the rest of the crew.

In any case, Voyager is unlikely to survive. Even a relatively bloodless mutiny would result in the deaths of a number of vital personel, and a more chaotic one could easily damage the ship irreparably.

It's rather ironic that, despite being a piss-poor captain, Janeway is the only one that could ever have pulled it off.

Again, time spent on the bridge is not what determines your position in the chain of command. Carey's not a great choice and is undoubtedly far down the line of succession, but he's the only realistic choice.

I direct you to Arsenel of Freedom in TNG.....LaForge being given command over the Chief Engineer. In fact, in the 24th century, when have we seen an Engineer take command of a Starship? As we've seen with Troi, you need to have some special training to assume the Conn of the ship.

It's rather ironic that, despite being a piss-poor captain, Janeway is the only one that could ever have pulled it off.

Lets be fair to Janeway...the only other Captain put in the same position as her did do ALOT worse 8)

Mark wrote:I direct you to Arsenel of Freedom in TNG.....LaForge being given command over the Chief Engineer.

Geordi was also a command-branch officer at the time, whereas both Kim and Carey are goldshirts.

In fact, in the 24th century, when have we seen an Engineer take command of a Starship?

As we've seen with Troi, you need to have some special training to assume the Conn of the ship.

Who's more likely to be command qualified? Carey, who has at least been around long enough to be promoted, or Kim, who's on his first posting?

Lets be fair to Janeway...the only other Captain put in the same position as her did do ALOT worse 8)

Depends how you define "worse". He was more genocidal than Janeway (that takes some doing), but he was getting the shit kicked out of him and his ship because he had a crap ship, not through his own stupidity as far as we could tell.

Who's more likely to be command qualified? Carey, who has at least been around long enough to be promoted, or Kim, who's on his first posting?

This is an impossible question to answer, as we know nothing about Carey's service record. We know that he was a LT (or was he a JG, I can't remember), and we know he was an engineers mate. We don't know what Carey did prior to his posting aboard Voyager. If he recieved average marks at the acadamy and was posted to a subspace relay outpost before coming to Voyager, I'm easily going to say Kim, the golden boy. Now, if Carey was a hair's breath away from promotion, and had department head or command school training of his own, or any other command qualifications, then I could go with him.

But at this point, here's what we know.

Lt. Carey was an engineers assistant.

Ens. Kim was the Chief Ops Officer and a bridge officer.

Who is likely to have more specific command training?

harry Kim, which is pretty scary...

It is odd that, for all the legit screwups Janeway did, without her it's entirely possible and likely that Voyager would never have made it home.

Aside from Janeway, the ONLY other one I can see getting them home is Chakotay. But I can't see Tuvok surrendering the center seat, or even the XOs seat to him except under some extrodinary quantum circumstance.

I think everyone on both sides realized what a threat Janeway was to their efforts to get home and were forced to put aside their differences and issues in order to try and negate the worst of her choices.

Regarding Tuvok....

We all know Vulcans have emotions, really. They just hide them.

Spock, you always got the impression that underneath, he was a nice guy. When Spock lost control in The Immunity Syndrome for instance, he was hanging off trees and being in love and happy and smiling. Even him emotions moved him to be fundamentally good and decent.

Tuvok, by contrast... is an asshole. Whenever we see anything of HIS emotions (that planet where they sell emotions for example), it's like a Hellraiser movie. And Tuvok as a character is a mean, nasty, and generally unpleasant man. He belittles those around him, sneers at them. Okay a lot of it is directed at Neelix, who everyone seems to hate, but even so. Can you ever imagine Spock showing Neelix the kind of open contempt that Tuvok routinely does?

And I think the crew sense that from him, and I don't think they'd ever truly give him their loyalty because of it.

Agreed. I can see Spock bantering with Neelix somewhat like Dr. McCoy. Tuvok does seem to be a genuine schmuck.

I also can't really see Spock deciding to use "Can I stop myself choking Neelix to death?" as a test of his own self-control.

Mark wrote:Aside from Janeway, the ONLY other one I can see getting them home is Chakotay. But I can't see Tuvok surrendering the center seat, or even the XOs seat to him except under some extrodinary quantum circumstance.

Not a chance. If Chakotay took control there'd be a full-scale mutiny from the Starfleet crew. They would never accept a Maquis as CO of the ship.

So, no Tuvok, no Chakotay... we're down to Harry again. Maybe the Delaney Sisters?

So, in essence, Janeway dies, the Caretaker array blows up, the Kazon capture Voyager after about two episodes, on to Enterprise?
What, no Seven to leer at!?!