Possible Roles For Fighters
- Graham Kennedy
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Up until recently I'd have said it was impossible for a fighter to carry photons. Look at the launcher on the E-D, the thing must be 30 metres long. But now with the Sovereign having all these tiny torp tubes... not so hard to imagine.
But could a fighter survive to launch them?
But could a fighter survive to launch them?
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
A swarm of fighters vs. a ship with a small number of weapons arrays (or a crappy Tactical Officer)...I could see it working...GrahamKennedy wrote:Up until recently I'd have said it was impossible for a fighter to carry photons. Look at the launcher on the E-D, the thing must be 30 metres long. But now with the Sovereign having all these tiny torp tubes... not so hard to imagine.
But could a fighter survive to launch them?
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- Graham Kennedy
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
I'm put in mind of Conundrum, when small weak ships tried to swarm the Enterprise-D. It blew through them in about two seconds flat. We've seen even a Type X array can fire better than a shot a second before now, not to mention firing multiple beams from one array.
Or remember Voyager against the whatsisnames, Krenim was it? One against dozens, and even using manual targeting they pretty much kicked their asses.
Or remember Voyager against the whatsisnames, Krenim was it? One against dozens, and even using manual targeting they pretty much kicked their asses.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Very true, but you're talking about Starfleet ships...maybe the enemy-of-the-week isn't equipped as well. There could very well be heavy losses in that type of attack, but some hotshot fighter pilot fresh out of the Academy just might have the right stuff...
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Obviously pitting a squadron of fighters against any capital ship will result in a massacre. Fighters would be primarily used in large fleet engagements, where the enemy is forced to split his fire between enemy warships and small torpedo-bombers.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
They'd be great for hammer-and-anvil hit-and-run attacks after the enemy has engaged your cap ships.Rochey wrote:Obviously pitting a squadron of fighters against any capital ship will result in a massacre. Fighters would be primarily used in large fleet engagements, where the enemy is forced to split his fire between enemy warships and small torpedo-bombers.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Aye...I can't imagine a fighter attack as the primary method of attack...Tsukiyumi wrote:They'd be great for hammer-and-anvil hit-and-run attacks after the enemy has engaged your cap ships.Rochey wrote:Obviously pitting a squadron of fighters against any capital ship will result in a massacre. Fighters would be primarily used in large fleet engagements, where the enemy is forced to split his fire between enemy warships and small torpedo-bombers.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
There is indeed a niche for torpedo-bombers in Trek warfare.
Even if each one is only armed with a single standard photorp, a squadron of them could still pose a threat to a large vessel. In a battle, with the enemy primarily foccused on engaging warships, these bombers could cause serious difficulties for the enemy fleet. Either by distracting, crippling or destroying vessels.
Even if each one is only armed with a single standard photorp, a squadron of them could still pose a threat to a large vessel. In a battle, with the enemy primarily foccused on engaging warships, these bombers could cause serious difficulties for the enemy fleet. Either by distracting, crippling or destroying vessels.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
No, SomosFuga did.Lazar wrote:I didn't mention carriers.Mikey wrote:And what ep showed those carriers you mentioned?
And without going back and quoting everyone, there seems to be an idea that fighters could be extremely effective as torpedo-bombers. The use of such craft was tricky at best during WWII; in 24th century 'Trek - as GK as made reference to - the abilities of starships to provide "flak"/point defense/generally render fighters to be little more than a nuisance makes that prospect even riskier. Is it worth sending a whole wing - a whole flight, even - of fighters and pilots to their flaming deaths in order to land one or two torp hits? IF those fighters can even carry regular-sized torps?
I agree that the use of fighters in DS9 especially has been woefully inadequate, but that's only because of the similarly inadequate depiction of ground-pounding warfare. The place of the fighter in 'Trek is, IMHO, atmospheric/orbital superiority, patrol, coast guard duties, and infantry and armor support.
Only accurate depending on which episode you're watching. The Defiant's ability to change it's size is a greater acheivement than its armor or pulse phasers.<em>SomosFuga</em> wrote:Defiant Class:
Length : 170.68 m
Beam : 134.11 m
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
You may have a point here but the Krenim are not exactly the best example because they were primitive in comparison with Voyager wich destroyed with ease even the large krenim ships (except the time ship of course) even after months of continuos battle; and about the Lysians, come on even NX 01 could have take them.GrahamKennedy wrote:I'm put in mind of Conundrum, when small weak ships tried to swarm the Enterprise-D. It blew through them in about two seconds flat. We've seen even a Type X array can fire better than a shot a second before now, not to mention firing multiple beams from one array.
Or remember Voyager against the whatsisnames, Krenim was it? One against dozens, and even using manual targeting they pretty much kicked their asses.
The Vaadwaur assault fighter would be a better example though i don't know its size, could be a little to big for a fighter.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Which is why you don't use fighters ALONE against capital ships. However in a big battle with several big ships duking it out, a bunch of fighters could easily avoid general attention and get in where they need to be. Also, there's really no need for the fighters to get in as close as we've seen. They should be keeping at the extreme range of the enemy ship's energy weapons and firing off their torps from there.GrahamKennedy wrote:I'm put in mind of Conundrum, when small weak ships tried to swarm the Enterprise-D. It blew through them in about two seconds flat. We've seen even a Type X array can fire better than a shot a second before now, not to mention firing multiple beams from one array.
Or remember Voyager against the whatsisnames, Krenim was it? One against dozens, and even using manual targeting they pretty much kicked their asses.
But why would a fighter need a launcher? On a capital ship it makes sense, they're carrying hundreds of torps in internal bays, you need some method of moving them from storage into a firing positon. Regardless of how big the lanucher is, it's still taking up less space then having rows and rows of torps on racks behind individual launch tubes, and it's much more sensible then straping torps to the outside of the ship.GrahamKennedy wrote:Up until recently I'd have said it was impossible for a fighter to carry photons. Look at the launcher on the E-D, the thing must be 30 metres long. But now with the Sovereign having all these tiny torp tubes... not so hard to imagine.
But could a fighter survive to launch them?
A fighter though, seeing as it's only going to be used in combat, has no reason why it can't just carry it's torps on external hardpoints like modern day fighters do.
- Graham Kennedy
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
There's a lot we don't know about how torps work, so we're limited on what we can say about whether fighters could employ them. I've no idea whether a torp can be dropped off a hardpoint or not; can't think of any reason why you couldn't, but then there equally must be some reason why even shuttles launch torps from actual launchers. So maybe you can't.
I dunno. Personally I'd rather take the resources for the fighters, the torps, the carrier, and just build another cap ship with it.
I dunno. Personally I'd rather take the resources for the fighters, the torps, the carrier, and just build another cap ship with it.
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Agreed on both counts. The fact that we've never seen a torp launched under its own propulsion (as opposed to sustaining a launch speed) or dropped from a hardpoint indicates - if not proves - that PT's require a launcher.
And until a true fighter-specific usage for fighters, as I've enumerated above, is indicated, I call it a mis-use of resources to build them just as adjuncts to a cap-ship style of conducting battle.
And until a true fighter-specific usage for fighters, as I've enumerated above, is indicated, I call it a mis-use of resources to build them just as adjuncts to a cap-ship style of conducting battle.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
Maybe only make your attack run at warp speed, then the torps warp sustainer takes over as usual. Isn't speculation wonderful?
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Re: Info on the USS Kelvin
True but this imaginary fighter does not have to use exactly the same type of torpedo a capital ship use, could be the same type of warhead but a quite different weapon, i still would like to call it "photon torpedo" because of its purpuse but this is spetially designed to be launched from a fighter.GrahamKennedy wrote:There's a lot we don't know about how torps work, so we're limited on what we can say about whether fighters could employ them. I've no idea whether a torp can be dropped off a hardpoint or not; can't think of any reason why you couldn't, but then there equally must be some reason why even shuttles launch torps from actual launchers. So maybe you can't.
If modern torpedoes can be launched from a variety of platforms which includes ships, submarines, choppers, fighters, and even missiles, why photon torpedoes couldn't?
That could be reasonable in SF particular case because most of their ships are very multipurpose and to build a ship that is useful only in wartimes with minimal or none cargo, transport, scientific, diplomatic, etc capabilities is comparatively expensive. Now, if other powers build effective fighters, would that force SF to do the same?GrahamKennedy wrote:I dunno. Personally I'd rather take the resources for the fighters, the torps, the carrier, and just build another cap ship with it.
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Handle stressful situations as a dog would: if you can't eat it or play with it, pee on it and get out of there!!!
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