'Yesterday's Enterprise' nit

[Sionnach Glic]

I actualy have a theory on how that came about.

It's posible that taxes were ramped up during the Cold War to help pay for Starfleet's new and shiny battleships to scare the Klingons off. After decades of being taxed to the hilt to hold off an enemy that never seemed to attack, people started getting fed up with the whole thing. Once the KE ceased to become a threat, a new ideology took hold amongst the masses that sprang from this simmering anger. One that renounced Starfleet's military ways and the capitalist system of the TOS UFP. As more and more people started to support such an ideology, the politicians in charge scrambled to stay in the public's good graces. One clear method of showing that they were all for this new ideology now that the Big Bad Enemy had been defeated would be to reorganise Starfleet completely to fit with the naive and utopian ideals that had taken hold.

With Starfleet suitably castrated, it became more and more difficult for the politicians to keep showing that they were supporting the new ideology. After reorganising branch after branch of the government, the only thing left to do was change the very system of the UFP itself. Presumably, the older and more conservative politicans would have opposed this, but would have been swiftly voted out in favour of newer, younger and more naive leaders.
Once they were in charge, these neo-communists began to completely reshape the UFP's economic and governmental systems, further neutering Starfleet.

While now weak, poorly led and woefully defended, the UFP would still have had a reputation as being top dog in the AQ with the Klingons out of the bigger picture. This meant that the UFP's naive little utopia did work for some time, simply because they were living on the borrowed time that their reputation had gained them. This time would have been stretched out by the various wars with opponents they could beat simply through sheer technological disparity, such as the Cardassians and the Tzenkethi.

Eventualy, people began realising that the Starfleet was little more than a paper tiger, leading to the numerous small incursions and skirmishes we saw in TNG. As time went on, the UFP's enemies would have begun to build up their own military forces in preparation for an invasion of the UFP, were it not for a few events that got the UFP thinking again.

The first Borg incursion was defeated, but at the cost of 40 ships and their crews. Following this, the smarter members of Starfleet's new admiralty suddenly realised that, surprise surprise, space is dangerous and there are a lot of people out there that don't like them. At this point the smart ones began to wake up from their little dreamworld and started inspecting Starfleet to assess how well they could deal with future battles. Naturaly, they didn't like what they saw.

Fearing another Borg incursion, they began to petition the UFP to allow them to create more combat-orientated vessels. The politicians, still too idealistic to realise the danger the UFP was in, didn't like the idea and many of the pure-warship ideas were dismissed immediately. So Starfleet's brightest decided to drop the whole "let's go back to building warships" angle, and instead began building ships that were supposedly civilian in nature, but were really the components to a new defence force.

The Akira was supposedly to carry a large number of shuttles and machinery to assist in colonising efforts
The Defiant was a short-range system observation vehicle.
The Prometheus was a new type of exploration ship that could survey new systems three times as fast as any other ship.
The Sovereign was a long range exploration vessel to replace the GCS at some point in the future.

With the politicians sufficiently duped, Starfleet was able to build up a small but solid core of capable warships to defend against future threats. With the outbreak of the Dominion War, Starfleet was capable of holding off the initial Dominion assaults, but with heavy losses amongst their warfleet. However, this gained them time to begin the process of completely remilitarising Starfleet. With the UFP now in a state of war against a vastly superior enemy, even the most naive of politicians realised that the construction of warships was necessary. During this period the reigning politicians would have been replaced with a more forceful government of politicians with the know-how and will to fight such a war, giving Starfleet a free hand in ship design.

While they were rebuilding their warfleet, Starfleet modified some of the more capable vessels that were available (such as the GCS) and experimented with using them as warships. Although some designs proved surprisingly capable, they were still outperformed by their pure-warship counterparts. As such, the older civilian-orientated Starfleet was replaced with a stronger and more militarised Starfleet, which was capable of holding off the Dominion and fighting them to a ceasefire.

When the Borg tried yet again they were met by a force of veteran officers with tried and tested warships resulting in the Cube's destruction, though again with heavy losses. The threat of future Borg or Dominion assaults, combined with a more forceful Admiralty and stronger government, would lead to a resurgence of TOS-style thinking regarding Starfleet and how it was run.

And that's my theory on post-TOS era UFP politics.

[Bryan Moore]

I actualy have a theory on how that came about.

It's posible that taxes were ramped up during the Cold War to help pay for Starfleet's new and shiny battleships to scare the Klingons off. After decades of being taxed to the hilt to hold off an enemy that never seemed to attack, people started getting fed up with the whole thing. Once the KE ceased to become a threat, a new ideology took hold amongst the masses that sprang from this simmering anger. One that renounced Starfleet's military ways and the capitalist system of the TOS UFP. As more and more people started to support such an ideology, the politicians in charge scrambled to stay in the public's good graces. One clear method of showing that they were all for this new ideology now that the Big Bad Enemy had been defeated would be to reorganise Starfleet completely to fit with the naive and utopian ideals that had taken hold.

With Starfleet suitably castrated, it became more and more difficult for the politicians to keep showing that they were supporting the new ideology. After reorganising branch after branch of the government, the only thing left to do was change the very system of the UFP itself. Presumably, the older and more conservative politicans would have opposed this, but would have been swiftly voted out in favour of newer, younger and more naive leaders.
Once they were in charge, these neo-communists began to completely reshape the UFP's economic and governmental systems, further neutering Starfleet.

While now weak, poorly led and woefully defended, the UFP would still have had a reputation as being top dog in the AQ with the Klingons out of the bigger picture. This meant that the UFP's naive little utopia did work for some time, simply because they were living on the borrowed time that their reputation had gained them. This time would have been stretched out by the various wars with opponents they could beat simply through sheer technological disparity, such as the Cardassians and the Tzenkethi.

Eventualy, people began realising that the Starfleet was little more than a paper tiger, leading to the numerous small incursions and skirmishes we saw in TNG. As time went on, the UFP's enemies would have begun to build up their own military forces in preparation for an invasion of the UFP, were it not for a few events that got the UFP thinking again.

The first Borg incursion was defeated, but at the cost of 40 ships and their crews. Following this, the smarter members of Starfleet's new admiralty suddenly realised that, surprise surprise, space is dangerous and there are a lot of people out there that don't like them. At this point the smart ones began to wake up from their little dreamworld and started inspecting Starfleet to assess how well they could deal with future battles. Naturaly, they didn't like what they saw.

Fearing another Borg incursion, they began to petition the UFP to allow them to create more combat-orientated vessels. The politicians, still too idealistic to realise the danger the UFP was in, didn't like the idea and many of the pure-warship ideas were dismissed immediately. So Starfleet's brightest decided to drop the whole "let's go back to building warships" angle, and instead began building ships that were supposedly civilian in nature, but were really the components to a new defence force.

The Akira was supposedly to carry a large number of shuttles and machinery to assist in colonising efforts
The Defiant was a short-range system observation vehicle.
The Prometheus was a new type of exploration ship that could survey new systems three times as fast as any other ship.
The Sovereign was a long range exploration vessel to replace the GCS at some point in the future.

With the politicians sufficiently duped, Starfleet was able to build up a small but solid core of capable warships to defend against future threats. With the outbreak of the Dominion War, Starfleet was capable of holding off the initial Dominion assaults, but with heavy losses amongst their warfleet. However, this gained them time to begin the process of completely remilitarising Starfleet. With the UFP now in a state of war against a vastly superior enemy, even the most naive of politicians realised that the construction of warships was necessary. During this period the reigning politicians would have been replaced with a more forceful government of politicians with the know-how and will to fight such a war, giving Starfleet a free hand in ship design.

While they were rebuilding their warfleet, Starfleet modified some of the more capable vessels that were available (such as the GCS) and experimented with using them as warships. Although some designs proved surprisingly capable, they were still outperformed by their pure-warship counterparts. As such, the older civilian-orientated Starfleet was replaced with a stronger and more militarised Starfleet, which was capable of holding off the Dominion and fighting them to a ceasefire.

When the Borg tried yet again they were met by a force of veteran officers with tried and tested warships resulting in the Cube's destruction, though again with heavy losses. The threat of future Borg or Dominion assaults, combined with a more forceful Admiralty and stronger government, would lead to a resurgence of TOS-style thinking regarding Starfleet and how it was run.

And that's my theory on post-TOS era UFP politics.

Okay, this is probably the best bit of writing I've read on the board since... well, I don't know when, but that so perfectly says it. Can we frame this/spawn to a new Federation Foreign Policy thread?

[Foxfyre]

I think the man deserves an award for that. Perfectly written and logical well done



for you

[Deepcrush]

Rochey, very well written. That sums it up about as well as one could without needing a Cross-Atlantic conference.

So, now the UFP is rebuilding its defensive abilities. We've had a thread on what we would do in the way of the Fleet but... How far does this go? Do we try to balance the fleet in a way in which we see Picard? A level between warrior and diplomat. Or do we reach the far end of this with the likes of Sisko? The Fleet rebuilds itself to the single greatest power in the AQ just as it was during Sisko's personal hero days. The days of Kirk and company.

What are the limits to this TOS rebirth?

For myself, I'd say no limits at all! Open up SF to everyone, just like it was in TOS. Bring in every able bodied man and woman who wants the honor of serving. Then, stack as many Spacedocks and build as many starships as we can. Hell, lets even double our shipyards. Let everyone know that the UFP isn't going to be a "toothless cat" anymore. Time to remind them of what made the UFP great to begin with... The combined might of 180 worlds working together!

[Sionnach Glic]

Okay, this is probably the best bit of writing I've read on the board since... well, I don't know when, but that so perfectly says it. Can we frame this/spawn to a new Federation Foreign Policy thread?

Thanks.

I think the man deserves an award for that. Perfectly written and logical well done



for you

Yay, cookies!

Rochey, very well written. That sums it up about as well as one could without needing a Cross-Atlantic conference.

Thanks.

So, now the UFP is rebuilding its defensive abilities. We've had a thread on what we would do in the way of the Fleet but... How far does this go? Do we try to balance the fleet in a way in which we see Picard? A level between warrior and diplomat. Or do we reach the far end of this with the likes of Sisko? The Fleet rebuilds itself to the single greatest power in the AQ just as it was during Sisko's personal hero days. The days of Kirk and company.

I'd say Starfleet will probably reorganise itself into two branches: one for controling the remaining civilian science fleet and another for controling the military. With the UFP's leadership getting a strong taste of reality in the space of a few years, I'd say Starfleet has a free hand to commission whatever warships it can come up with for the forseeable future.

The only problem might be if the UFP falls back into its naive state after defeating its enemies. Though it's unlikely that Starfleet is going to undergo any sort of major reorganisation back towards the civilian sector any time soon. With the current government system apparently having the support of the majority of the UFP's populace there's no need for the politicians to restructure the military to get votes.

What are the limits to this TOS rebirth?

For myself, I'd say no limits at all! Open up SF to everyone, just like it was in TOS. Bring in every able bodied man and woman who wants the honor of serving. Then, stack as many Spacedocks and build as many starships as we can. Hell, lets even double our shipyards. Let everyone know that the UFP isn't going to be a "toothless cat" anymore. Time to remind them of what made the UFP great to begin with... The combined might of 180 worlds working together!

I can see a pretty major remilitarisation of Starfleet in the near future. Probably the formation of dedicated warfleets and the establishment of new shipyards and academies throughout the UFP.

[Mikey]

I'd say Starfleet will probably reorganise itself into two branches: one for controling the remaining civilian science fleet and another for controling the military

Hooray!

The only problem might be if the UFP falls back into its naive state after defeating its enemies.

Much less likelihood of that if, in fact, there is a separate and dedicated military arm.

[Teaos]

I think with any prolonged period of peace there will be a return of early TNG era softness.

[Mikey]

To an extent, yes, it's inevitable; but a dedicated military would sure mitigate that.

[Tyyr]

An active independent military branch can keep campaigning and pushing to keep their fleet operational. It'd be much more difficult to shut down than if you just are having Starfleet act a little tougher or mount another torpedo tube or two on each ship.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Might be a bit late, but Rochey, that was awesome. A great piece of work there.

I hope Starfleet just realizes that keeping an eye out for those damned particles of the week is important.

[Sionnach Glic]

Thanks.

An active independent military branch can keep campaigning and pushing to keep their fleet operational. It'd be much more difficult to shut down than if you just are having Starfleet act a little tougher or mount another torpedo tube or two on each ship.

It would also be very difficult to shut down/neuter if you had a seperate civilian branch as well. There'd be no justification for turning the military one into a civilian one as well, as that'd just be pointless. At worst, the military Starfleet would probably see its budget slashed spectacularly.

[Deepcrush]

But even on a reduced budget, it could still be more effective then a bunch of old civilian ships trying to fight a war.

[Sionnach Glic]

Very true.

[Deepcrush]

That and so long as they have that dedicated military arm. It shouldn't be hard for them tool up production if ever needed. They have the designs and only need to keep the shipyards in mothballs until needed. So long as they continue to produce "good" warships they're only left with the question of how many to build. With the UFP resources, I can imagine a massive fleet being built without much trouble.

[Reliant121]

I'd create two seperate services much like Tyyr has done. one for science and exploration, and one for beating the fuck out of whomsoever makes an attack.