www.ditl.org

I was leaning more towards the defensive end of the fleet.

Science missions can be taken by the Intrepids and Novas. Charting missions can be run by all those worthless little ships that SF turned out in desperation of the DW. Most of the larger ships have the ability to support S/E type missions if they're in the area.

Ah I see. I think your setup is great. Concise, practical, and doesn't make use of too many ships.

Hard to build a non wank but still uber fleet without proper resource management.

Deepcrush wrote:The Battleship role would rest flat on the Paladin.
-No AQ/GQ faction out there has anything to match this ship.

I'm not so sure about the second bit - we never saw the JH Battleship in an all-out fleet action, and given given the firepower JH ships have displayed it might give even the Paladin a run for its money.

The main line Heavy Cruiser of the fleet will be the (upgraded) Nebula.
-A ship with a massive amount of upgrades leave it able to challange most races battleships.

Quite apart from the argument over how easy it would be to refit, I don't see the point of it for what the thread title describes as the backbone of the fleet. For that role you want something with proven technology that can be built and maintained on a large scale. Type-XIIs are relatively new weapons, and QTs have always been depicted as very rare. For a "backbone" ship, you want something slightly less than SOTA, proven technology, with an established industrial base.

The Standard Cruiser role would be filled by a couple of ships.
-Akira - Long range missile ship. Perfect for cover fire over the heavy warships that will be up close in battle.
-Ambassador (refitted) - Perfect for use against small attack ships but big enough that they'd need numbers for a response.
-Prometheus - Fast and powerful. No clue what the range/reach of this ship is. But its still a fair choice.

I'd agree with two out of three of these, but not the Ambassador. Unrefitted it would do well as a backbone ship, to patrol sectors that didn't rate a Nebula, but its not up to modern warfare, an the design is decades old - if you wanted a more modern ship in that size range you'd be better off with an unrefitted Neb or a new build, rather than trying to upgrade the Ambassador.

The Light Cruiser role fits with the Excelsior.
-The Lakota upgrades show a tough and hard hitting ship. However I do worry about the age of these ships. I expect a lot of dock time for these ships to maintain them. Still, its a good ship.

The Lakota was a one-off which, for all it's effectiveness as shown against the Defiant, I think shows that the refit simply isn't cost effective. They should be relegated to cargo-hauling duties, training, and patrolling the back-of-beyond sectors that aren't worth anything better.

The Destroyer role is left for the Defiant class.
-The tough little ship. Pound for pound is pricey but you can't beat here size and total cost

I don't think destroyer is the right title here - it implies an escort, while the Defiant, official designation aside, packs a punch to match a GCS. A monitor maybe? Short-ranged, but with devastating fire power.

I'm not so sure about the second bit - we never saw the JH Battleship in an all-out fleet action, and given given the firepower JH ships have displayed it might give even the Paladin a run for its money.

I have no doubt that the Dominion Battleship is a tough match. However, the given abilities of the Dominion Battleship don't seem to weigh against the cost as they weren't deployed for battle except around Cardassia Prime. That is dispite the troubles the Dominion was in during the latter stages of the war.

Quite apart from the argument over how easy it would be to refit, I don't see the point of it for what the thread title describes as the backbone of the fleet. For that role you want something with proven technology that can be built and maintained on a large scale. Type-XIIs are relatively new weapons, and QTs have always been depicted as very rare. For a "backbone" ship, you want something slightly less than SOTA, proven technology, with an established industrial base.

The standard Neb w/ WP is that proven and less then the SOTA. The upgrades for both hull and pod are things that won't happen over night and are by no means rushed. The refit is a future matter that will benefit the UFP. While in the present the Neb is perfect for the Backbone role even as it is.

I'd agree with two out of three of these, but not the Ambassador. Unrefitted it would do well as a backbone ship, to patrol sectors that didn't rate a Nebula, but its not up to modern warfare, an the design is decades old - if you wanted a more modern ship in that size range you'd be better off with an unrefitted Neb or a new build, rather than trying to upgrade the Ambassador.

There's no reason that you couldn't use the Ambassador is such a way while still in the role of a cruiser. In fact it works pretty well. Like you said, need a ship but you don't want to send a top of the line cruiser (of any class). Then you can send the Ambassadors. There may not be many of them. But there are enough for the job of back-water patrol or show of intrest missions.

The Lakota was a one-off which, for all it's effectiveness as shown against the Defiant, I think shows that the refit simply isn't cost effective. They should be relegated to cargo-hauling duties, training, and patrolling the back-of-beyond sectors that aren't worth anything better.

I have to strongly disagree with most of this. The Lakota refit bring a number of things to SF. First it puts life back in a known and trusted hull. Second it helps to replace the lost combat ability of the UFP after the DW. Cargo runs are a huge amount of leg work better left to those little POS ships we've seen popping up in FC or later DS9. The same holds true to the back-water patrols. Missions like these are better left for newer hulls with better engines.

Excelsiors are best left in short range mission profiles. Staying in and around the UFP core worlds. Though, being this close to the academy would make them perfect for training new crews.

I don't think destroyer is the right title here - it implies an escort, while the Defiant, official designation aside, packs a punch to match a GCS. A monitor maybe? Short-ranged, but with devastating fire power.

I thought about this same problem. But, since we want to stick as close to canon as possible. I figured to compare the Defiant class to a modern day Coast Guard vessel. Guided missiles and torpedos make them more then a match for anything built more then 30 years ago. That is dispite their size.

Taking the Defiant along this line seems to work. A short range ship with as much fire power packed into the hull as they could fit. Maybe even a little extra since the ship can fly itself apart and dumps raw warp core power straight into it's pulse phasers. Over stacked in armor and fair shields you have what I guess you would call a "Heavy?" Destroyer.

Though this doesn't really fit all to well OOU. IU it makes up for it.

Battleship: Uprated Galaxy
Battlecruiser: Sovereign Mk II, Vesta-class
Tactical Cruiser: Prometheus-class
Heavy Cruiser: Luna-class, Ambassador-class, Akira-class, Nebula-class
Cruiser: Excelsior-class, Steamrunner-class, Norway-class
Light Cruiser: Intrepid-class
Destroyer: Defiant-class
Scout: Sabre-class
Science Ship: Nova-class
Hospital Ship: Olympic-class

Muesem ships
-NX-class
-Deadalus-class
-Constitution-class
-Constellation-class
-1st and 2nd production run Excelsior-class ships
-Miranda-class

I'd use the Sov as a battleship, and remove the GCS from combat duties, personaly. The GCS is quite simply a terrible design for combat. Put them on dedicated S&E missions instead.

Rochey wrote:I'd use the Sov as a battleship, and remove the GCS from combat duties, personaly. The GCS is quite simply a terrible design for combat. Put them on dedicated S&E missions instead.

It could be made into a proper battleship by doing these things.
-Add some armor all over the place.
-Fill up all unused space with fuel and weapons
-Put in a better warp core with better output and stability.
-Replace the Type 10s with Type 12s.
-Give it Quantum Torpedoes.
-Replace the Type 3 Burst Fire tubes with Rapid Fire tubes.

Then it would easily be perfect for the battleship role.

So, basically the Dominion War refit for the Galaxy?

Also, for the Defiant, given its short endurance (2 weeks, IIRC), I'd classify it more along the lines of a PT boat.

It'd make a great partner with the original GCS though. The GCS handles all the supplies, long-term medical needs, etc, while the Defiants go over and kill stuff.

JudgeKing wrote:

Rochey wrote:I'd use the Sov as a battleship, and remove the GCS from combat duties, personaly. The GCS is quite simply a terrible design for combat. Put them on dedicated S&E missions instead.

It could be made into a proper battleship by doing these things.
-Add some armor all over the place.
-Fill up all unused space with fuel and weapons
-Put in a better warp core with better output and stability.
-Replace the Type 10s with Type 12s.
-Give it Quantum Torpedoes.
-Replace the Type 3 Burst Fire tubes with Rapid Fire tubes.

Then it would easily be perfect for the battleship role.

So a whole new ship?

That level of upgrades is just to much to be practical. Build a new model of skip (Sovereign, Paladin) and leave the GCS to S&E missions for which it is actually pretty well designed.

It could be made into a proper battleship by doing these things.
-Add some armor all over the place.
-Fill up all unused space with fuel and weapons
-Put in a better warp core with better output and stability.
-Replace the Type 10s with Type 12s.
-Give it Quantum Torpedoes.
-Replace the Type 3 Burst Fire tubes with Rapid Fire tubes.

Then it would easily be perfect for the battleship role.

And for that you'd basicaly need to tear out all the insides and rebuild it all over again. Any idea how much it'd cost to have that done to the entire GCS fleet? It'd be insanely wasteful, and even then there's still the fact that the ship's design is terrible in combat terms. Simply leave them as they are, remove them from the frontlines, and start replacing them with Sovs.

Where can I find the Paladin-Class?

Praeothmin wrote:Where can I find the Paladin-Class?

Here you go.

It's close to the bottom of the page.

Thanks.

This is... I mean, I think I just came...

tmi