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The Connie seems to be a very good design. Sturdy, powerful and with some good safety systems.

IIRC, the phaser hits in TWoK were strafed right across the neck, above the torp launcher. However, I think TUC is a better example - she got a hole punched right through her and kept on ticking. Yes, Scotty was a factor, but every 'Trek hero ship has had its character shield - or rather, character maintenance man. I think the Connie was the toughest ship on 'Trek relative to the weapons of the time; and aesthetically both graceful and common-sense without overly-affected lines *cough*GCS*cough*

Deepcrush wrote: Nothing like melted ice cream to ruin your day.

agreed

But i think the Constitution both pre and post refit were awesome ships. however they did both seem foolishly designed.. it seems like well placed hits could bring the ship down pretty easily. (i.e the small connection points from the nacell to the hull, the neck ect) granted he have no idea how these points would hold up under concentrated fire but given the damage done by torpedo hits in TWoK and TUC i would imagine that these points would fare little better....

but again we never see these areas specificaly attacked. then again when he see the ent in combat against the reliant kahn was not initialy out to destroy the big E, just disable it for the time being, and in the nebula they were firing blind. in TUC changs over confidence seems to play into this, it almost seems as if he is toying with them as he seems to sttack from a different angle every time when he could easily manuevet into whatever angle he wants since the E-A had no idea where he was. i would think he would concentrate his fire on one spot to disable the E-A as fast as possible

Kevsha wrote:in TUC changs over confidence seems to play into this, it almost seems as if he is toying with them as he seems to sttack from a different angle every time when he could easily manuevet into whatever angle he wants since the E-A had no idea where he was. i would think he would concentrate his fire on one spot to disable the E-A as fast as possible

On the contrary - by constantly changing position after each shot Chang further reduced the E-A's already slim chances of locating him. If all the shots were coming from the same small area of space, the E-A might have been able to detect the ship by focusing sensors on that area, or by using remote-detonated PTs as a form of depth charge. By constantly changing position he was able to avoid such slight posibilities, as the E-A would have no idea where to start.

Mikey wrote:IIRC, the phaser hits in TWoK were strafed right across the neck, above the torp launcher.

i thought that it did hit the launcher? and then ran the length of it? it didn't hit the think neck part

Captain Seafort wrote: On the contrary - by constantly changing position after each shot Chang further reduced the E-A's already slim chances of locating him. If all the shots were coming from the same small area of space, the E-A might have been able to detect the ship by focusing sensors on that area, or by using remote-detonated PTs as a form of depth charge. By constantly changing position he was able to avoid such slight posibilities, as the E-A would have no idea where to start.

i agree with this to a degree, however space is a big place, chang could easily focus fire on one portion of the ship from a multitude of angles and distances, especially since we know the torpedos can change thier course. also something like the neck ot nacelle strut connection points are rather easy to hit from a large multitude of angles. but chang didn't seem to focus his fire ony any particularly important spot on the ship (unless he was really gunning for that dining hall). also kirk made no attempt to return fire until he had a way to detect chang's ship

The alternative is that Chang wasn't targeting specific areas at all, and the best he could do was fire in the E-A's direction and rely on the torps on-board sensors to actually hit it, rather than being able to target specific components. While we have heard of orders to target specific components, they've all been in the TNG era, and it's not hard to believe that sensors improved a bit over the intervening decades, or that cloaked ships (especially early ones such as Chang's) still suffered from the double-blind problem to some extent.

Captain Seafort wrote:The alternative is that Chang wasn't targeting specific areas at all, and the best he could do was fire in the E-A's direction and rely on the torps on-board sensors to actually hit it, rather than being able to target specific components. While we have heard of orders to target specific components, they've all been in the TNG era, and it's not hard to believe that sensors improved a bit over the intervening decades, or that cloaked ships (especially early ones such as Chang's) still suffered from the double-blind problem to some extent.

actually i do have alitle trouble beleaving that. the torpedoes aren't cloaked, they know what the target looks like, we already have the ability of munitions to match what they see to pre-loaded images of a terrain and the missile/ bomb can make the determination of where to hit. again we know torpedos have a guidence system that is independant of a ships its hard to beleave that its LESS advanced than those we have now. even without sensors its not hard to find some weak points by liiking at the ship, and we know that chang had a visual on it. the glowy red things look important. the structure on top of the circle thingie, the big long dilies with the big pylon that tapers down to a small surface area... i tend to want to beleave firing the torpedos is more complicated than a neanderthal chucking rocks at something

but changs actions an mannerisms make me beleave he is just punighing the E-A for the fun of it. and seems very much as if he is delighting in the damage he is afflicting on the E-A and wants to prolong it as much as possible

but changs actions an mannerisms make me beleave he is just punighing the E-A for the fun of it. and seems very much as if he is delighting in the damage he is afflicting on the E-A and wants to prolong it as much as possible

I was wondering how many torpedoes he could fit in the BOP's nose section.

Probably the best design the UFP has ever fielded, the Excelsior and Miranda class coming close seconds. Practical, powerful, stable and held together like nothing after it. Perfection.

I don't think you can really beat the ships of TOS. Form and function... just beautiful. I think everyone remembers then first time they saw the connie refit. It just looked like pure awsome.

I can. i was 10. I loved that thing. The great thing bout TMP era ships is that they have such style, such elegance and such grace. Clean, elegant lines, perfectly combining form with function.

It should really be noted that Scotty didn't appear to have a full Engineering crew in TWOK, just his cadets. They couldn't even draft in other crew members to help with the repairs like they would normally have done.

Kevsha wrote:i thought that it did hit the launcher? and then ran the length of it? it didn't hit the think neck part

I stand corrected.

Deepcrush wrote:I think everyone remembers then first time they saw the connie refit.

I was 9 when TMP came out, and the reveal scene was just epic.