www.ditl.org

Phantom Renegade wrote:I'd send a report to starfleet about the situation, send in a small probe with just enough range to reach the Maru(so it doesn't look a spy attempt by opposing forces) and hold at the border for orders or unless the data from the probe suggests that the Maru is in immediate danger like radiation leaks or something. If it was in immediate danger, I'd send a report to Starfleet that after an assessment of the situation I can't wait for their orders and am going in on my orders alone. I'd have the comm broadcasting a constant signal indicating our mission and purpose in the zone, and ask the deities to protect me as I go in and hope for the best.

Yeah, I had wondered above about what kind of response (if any) the "captain" would get from "headquarters" in this situation. While it's an appropriate response (by the book, as Saavik would say) it sort of defeats the purpose of the test. But then, since the cadets aren't supposed* to know the point of the test before they take it, they can in principle just log the event and feel that they did their job.

* I get a feeling that word would get around about this test, though. Now, what the Academy would do about this is yet another question. It seems this thread just opens a new question for every answer, dunnit?

I'm guessing that cadets don't walk into the simulator knowing ahead of time that it IS the Maru test, until the ship is identified. But if it was me, I would warp in, grab the ship in a tractor beam, and hit the warp drive again as quick as I could. While in full retreat, evac the Maru's crew then cut the ship loose, and let the baddies dodge it. I wouldn't even try to fight.

GrahamKennedy wrote:I like the way In Peter Kirk dealt with it in the novel "Sarek". At that time it was Romulans in the test. Before they fire he challenges the Romulan commander to a ritual duel using an obscure Romulan law. Battle between the two sides is prohibited until the duel is over, so Peter goes and beams aboard the Romulan flagship, instructing his crew to beam the survivors off while he delays the Romulans. His ship escapes, with Peter basically sacrificing himself to save both ship and all the civilians.

That's good - assuming that most cadets are well-versed in fine, obscure points of archaic Romulan law.

Or that said Romulan law even exists.

Word of what the test involves would definitely get around, which would kind of defeat the object of the test because students would adopt whatever disposition they thought Starfleet would want rather than reacting naturally.

One thought is, students must go through an awful lot of these simulations - dozens, maybe hundreds across all four years of the academy. Presumably many involve other ships, so perhaps Kobayashi Maru is a standard ship name that's used in many different scenarios? That way nobody would know which one is the guaranteed fail test. Although that would kind of defeat the object of calling it "The Kobayashi Maru test".

Here's a thought. When Saavik sees the data on the ship on the screen, she says a quiet "Damn!" Maybe that's when she realised what scenario she was playing out!

I remember reading in one of the Strange New Worlds anthologies about Kirks reprogramming of the simulator. Yes the test is supposed to be a "no win", let the innocent civilians die or lose your ship, but the story (Kirk) pointed out a number of incongruencies (<--spelling?):
-There is no reason a fuel-carrier should be carrying that many passengers;
-there is no reason said fuel carrier should be that deep in the neutral zone;
-there is no way the Klingon ships would be "right there" at the very instant the Enterprise showed up with out warning;
-there is now a way the Klingon shots would do 100% absolute damage despite any of the ships defenses
-the Enterprise should at least be able to damage said Klingon ships.

Mark wrote:I'm guessing that cadets don't walk into the simulator knowing ahead of time that it IS the Maru test, until the ship is identified. But if it was me, I would warp in, grab the ship in a tractor beam, and hit the warp drive again as quick as I could. While in full retreat, evac the Maru's crew then cut the ship loose, and let the baddies dodge it. I wouldn't even try to fight.

That's assuming you can reach it and assuming it isn't damaged so much that you can't tow it at high warp and assuming that you can beam them off while at warp with enemy ships hot on your tail(I'd assume your sheilds would be up).

Indeed. You'd be unable to beam people off unless you dropped your shields, at which point you'd be blown apart. So you're reduced to towing the ship, which would presumably slow you down qutie a bit and allow the enemy to catch up.

BTW, welcome to the site, Phantom.

Rochey wrote:Indeed. You'd be unable to beam people off unless you dropped your shields, at which point you'd be blown apart. So you're reduced to towing the ship, which would presumably slow you down qutie a bit and allow the enemy to catch up.

BTW, welcome to the site, Phantom.

Why thank you. I can tell I'm going to like you already.

Rochey wrote:Indeed. You'd be unable to beam people off unless you dropped your shields, at which point you'd be blown apart. So you're reduced to towing the ship, which would presumably slow you down qutie a bit and allow the enemy to catch up.

Hell, as was mentioned above, the shields didn't seem to do much good anyway. From Saavik's test, it would seem you may not have much time to even get a tractor lock before you're dead, though. Could the test be too fast - the destruction by the Super Klingons too quick to allow the captain to try something? It occurs to me that to some extent the ultra-rapid destruction may defeat the purpose for this reason (though I realize there must also be a sense of immediate danger for the test to "work")

The Klingons are programmed to be so uber-powerful because the test isn't supposed to be a metric of combat command capability. Without the inconsistencies, it wouldn't test the same factors.

Mikey wrote:The Klingons are programmed to be so uber-powerful because the test isn't supposed to be a metric of combat command capability. Without the inconsistencies, it wouldn't test the same factors.

Absolutely, and understood. But I was thinking that some of the ideas discussed here would seem to be moot since you're dead before you have the chance to try them.

Also, this raises a potential answer to my earlier question regarding what would happen if word gets around - it strikes me that for all the planning (and grandstanding and boasting?) that may go on, once you're faced with Super Klingons, with no effective defenses or offenses, what you actually would do is a lot different. It's like what you'd actually do if mugged at gunpoint and not what you'd plan to do.

Captain Picard's Hair wrote:...once you're faced with Super Klingons, with no effective defenses or offenses, what you actually would do is a lot different. It's like what you'd actually do if mugged at gunpoint and not what you'd plan to do.

"No plan survives contact with the battlefield."

Or, as they say, "Plans last until the first shot is fired."

If there's say a thousand different scenarios, with the Kobayashi Maru and perhaps a few others taken by all Cadets (and a few more chosen at random), would Cadets realise that everyone took the Kobayashi Maru test and that it was unbeatable? For all they knew it could just be one scenario amongst many.

Is there any dialogue that specifically states that all Cadets take that particular test? The only scene that springs to my mind is in the Genesis Cave - Saavik knew that Kirk had taken the test. If the test was a big secret, it seems a bit irresponsible of Starfleet to award Kirk a commendation for beating it - I'd imagine a fair amount of Kirks career would be studied by Cadets, surely someone would notice spot his commendation and find out what it was for.