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Yeah I agree with Mikey, I like things to stay as canonish as possible or you risk falling into godship territory.

Mikey wrote:I don't know if you care about such things, but the Churchill, at least, violates one of Roddenberry's rules of design. And is that a baby-size fourth nacelle slung under the engineering hull?

well, depending on the rule of design I might be.

yes it is, the ship depends mainly on the three larger nacelles, but if any of them are seriously damaged the "baby" one is suitable for sustaining mid warp.

roddenberry's rules n a nutshell: Bridge must be on top, nacelles come in pairs, nacelles are visible in the front view.

well the nacelles in pairs thing has been contradicted by cannon i.e. the Galaxy Refit and soon to be Kelvin.

the bridge on top is a poor design tactic especially for a battleship. That's been adressed on here before, and I believe the Paladin's bridge is also located deep within the ship.

having nacelles visible from the front doesn't seem like all that big a deal, and is again not a good disign tactic for a battle ship where you're trying to protect your nacelles.

Lt. Staplic wrote:well the nacelles in pairs thing has been contradicted by cannon i.e. the Galaxy Refit and soon to be Kelvin.

Too true. Plus the Niagara-class.

Lt. Staplic wrote:the bridge on top is a poor design tactic especially for a battleship. That's been adressed on here before, and I believe the Paladin's bridge is also located deep within the ship.

Everybody and their mother agrees with you (except Teaos, but he's from the bottom half of the world.) However, that is one of GR's design rules that has yet to be countermanded by canon.

Lt. Staplic wrote:having nacelles visible from the front doesn't seem like all that big a deal, and is again not a good disign tactic for a battle ship where you're trying to protect your nacelles.

Again, you may have the advantage of common sense on your side, but rules is rules.

well in that case i'm going to have to defy, those rules.

it is my universe after all.

Mikey wrote:However, that is one of GR's design rules that has yet to be countermanded by canon.

technically it also has yet to be confirmed by cannon. While that's how we've seen these things and his logic behind it, no one on screen has said that these are rules of starship design. right now it's just one great big coincidence.

Lt. Staplic wrote:well in that case i'm going to have to defy, those rules.

it is my universe after all.

Fair enough.

Lt. Staplic wrote:technically it also has yet to be confirmed by cannon. While that's how we've seen these things and his logic behind it, no one on screen has said that these are rules of starship design. right now it's just one great big coincidence.

That's not how it works. Contradiction must be confirmed; affirmation in the absence of contrary evidence can and should be assumed.

oh well, there's a new set of rules in town, and they make sence!

*Edit: just remembered something from ENT.

during the time that Tucker and Reed are on the Holoship controlled by the Romulans, Tucker says something equalling the followig:

maybe the bridge isn't on the top of the ship, there's no rule that says the bridge has to be on top.

two down one to go!

shran wrote:roddenberry's rules n a nutshell: Bridge must be on top, nacelles come in pairs, nacelles are visible in the front view.

Good article on this here : http://www.trekplace.com/article15.html

see, all the rules are contradicted by cannon. I'm safe!

GrahamKennedy wrote:Good article on this here : http://www.trekplace.com/article15.html

Interesting. So all Roddenberry's rules are contradicted by canon except the bridge one - which is contradicted by common sense.

Well there is this from The Apple :



One might claim that the bridge is at the topmost point, though.

Lt. Staplic wrote:*Edit: just remembered something from ENT.

during the time that Tucker and Reed are on the Holoship controlled by the Romulans, Tucker says something equalling the followig:

maybe the bridge isn't on the top of the ship, there's no rule that says the bridge has to be on top.

two down one to go!

Sorry - the rules are all out the window unless we presume them to apply to Federation ships specifically.

The Tholian kitbash that Graham posted, from TOS: "The Apple" is a little indistinct to tell where the bridge is, if it has anything more than a glorified cockpit.

BTW, I'd love it if Roddenberry's rules of ship design were completely debunked. Their existence was nothing more than a mean-spirited attempt to close out a major contributor of the reward for his effort, and to allow Gene to remain the unchallenged, unquestioned G-d-Emperor of 'Trek.

well,if you look on the site GK posted, all most of them (other than the bridge) have cannon debunkers.

the bridge one wasn't ever really a rule, it was just done for scale.

One might argue that the various warp capable shuttlecraft we've seen debunk that idea anyway.