What ships in Starfleet are considered Battleships?

[robjkay]

Boy getting some great replies, sure wish you guys were at the other forum expressing your views. LoL

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I wonder, how come we're sure that the D'Deridex-class Warbirds are dedicated battleships. Maybe they're multi-mission ships like the Galaxy-class. They're about as strong as Galaxys and are even bigger. Warbirds may be a term coined during conflicts with the Romulans. The ships seen in Nemesis may be dedicated warships, like how the Defiant and Sovereigns were designed primarily for combat.

As for the skeleton Galaxys in the war, their power could be dedicated to weapons and sheild making them stronger. And if all else fails to explain them, the frames existed but not everything was installed to save time during the war. They were probably completed after the war.

I think the Galaxys are best used for deplomacy(luxery ship with enough weapons and speed to take on anyone or at least run from them). Other ships should be used primarily for combat like the Defiant(duh), Soverigns, and the Akiras. And other ships should be used for science like the Novas, Oberths, and maybe Intrepids(we didn't see a lot of them in the war and Voyager often took a beating.) Although Intrepids seem to be like mini-Galaxys.

[Graham Kennedy]

I seem to recall reading that during the Dominion war all Galaxies in production were rushed through with very few science labs, holodecks, or diplomatic facilities and much reduced crew quarters, cargo bays and such.

Basically the hulls were half empty.

[robjkay]

I wonder, how come we're sure that the D'Deridex-class Warbirds are dedicated battleships. Maybe they're multi-mission ships like the Galaxy-class. They're about as strong as Galaxys and are even bigger. Warbirds may be a term coined during conflicts with the Romulans. The ships seen in Nemesis may be dedicated warships, like how the Defiant and Sovereigns were designed primarily for combat.

I do not think its certain that the D'Deridex-class Warbirds is a Battleship. I pointed out in a different ditl.org forum that in "Tin Man" a episode from TNG the D'Deridex was refered to as a Cruiser on 3 occasions I believe. Also it I think it was referred as a Cruiser in 2 other episodes "Contagion & Angel One" which I have not been able to confirm. Was told it will be checked out.

[Captain Seafort]

As I've mentioned in the D'Deridex thread (should these two be merged, by the way, we seem to be going over much the same ground in each of them) the D'Deridex and the Galaxy are both battleships by the definition of being the largest, best protected and most heavilly armed ships in their respective fleets. The best cruiser arguments come from their unsupported deployment and use in scouting missions. The war-Galaxys mentioned in the DS9 TM were certainly modified in some ways, as the Venture at least had an extra pair of phaser arrays, atop thge nacelles, so its possible that other modifications were made, such as extra fuel supplies, backup generators, or troop quarters a la the E-D of "Yesterday's Enterprise".

The assumption that Explorer=Battleship probably comes from the TNG TM statement that:

The USS Enterprise is categorised as an Explorer, the largest starship in a classification systemthat includes cruiser, cargo carrier, tanker, surveyor and scout.

This puts the Explorer category in the same position in the Starfleet scale that the Battleship is in ours, and the Excelsiors and Ambassadors would certainly count as battleships when new. By the Dominion War, however, along with lesser ships such as Nebulas, Akiras and the like, their role seems to have been reduced to that of cruisers, still useful warships, but no longer Starfleets most powerful.

[robjkay]

As I've mentioned in the D'Deridex thread (should these two be merged, by the way, we seem to be going over much the same ground in each of them) the D'Deridex and the Galaxy are both battleships by the definition of being the largest, best protected and most heavilly armed ships in their respective fleets. The best cruiser arguments come from their unsupported deployment and use in scouting missions. The war-Galaxys mentioned in the DS9 TM were certainly modified in some ways, as the Venture at least had an extra pair of phaser arrays, atop thge nacelles, so its possible that other modifications were made, such as extra fuel supplies, backup generators, or troop quarters a la the E-D of "Yesterday's Enterprise".

The assumption that Explorer=Battleship probably comes from the TNG TM statement that:

The USS Enterprise is categorised as an Explorer, the largest starship in a classification systemthat includes cruiser, cargo carrier, tanker, surveyor and scout.

This puts the Explorer category in the same position in the Starfleet scale that the Battleship is in ours, and the Excelsiors and Ambassadors would certainly count as battleships when new. By the Dominion War, however, along with lesser ships such as Nebulas, Akiras and the like, their role seems to have been reduced to that of cruisers, still useful warships, but no longer Starfleets most powerful.

But you are using a definition or term that dates back when WW2 or earlier. Who is to say that definition still applies during the Star Trek period? Remember Battleships are none existent by late 80's and the largest, best protected and most heavilly armed ships in any respective fleets are large Cruisers or Destroyers. Therfore the same could be said during the Star Trek era.

Now for other races, who is to say there definition or how they catagories there ships are the same as Starfleet. Like the D'Deridex which is 2 - 3 times larger then a Galaxy and like I said was called a Cruiser/Warbird in a episode. Which leads me to believe there standards are diferent.

Now for your quote from the TNG TM that yes it say that it is categorised as an Explorer, the largest starship in a classification system that includes cruiser, cargo carrier, tanker, surveyor and scout. So it says its a Explorer but that does not suggest or say or assume its a Battleship!

Also the TNG TM says and I quote:

The following objectives have been established for the Galaxy Class Starship. These are the mission objestives for the Galaxy Class.

*To provide a mobile platform for a wide range of ongoing scientific and cultural research projects.

*To replace aging Ambassador and Oberth class starships as primary instruments of Starfleet exploration programs.

*To provide autonomous capility for full execution of Federation policy options in outlying areas.

Nothing suggest or even comes close from I see or understand that the Galaxy, Ambassador or any other ship was considered a Battleship nor was Explorer was another term for it. But at the same time just about everything we all said is non-canon.

[Graham Kennedy]

It always puzzled me a bit, the idea that the Galaxy was to replace the Oberth. I don't see how it is really possible given that the two ships are of such a radically different type. Surely there were more Oberths than Galaxy class, MANY more. So how is the much smaller Galaxy fleet going to replace them? It's like replacing a bunch of destroyers with a battleship.

[robjkay]

It always puzzled me a bit, the idea that the Galaxy was to replace the Oberth. I don't see how it is really possible given that the two ships are of such a radically different type. Surely there were more Oberths than Galaxy class, MANY more. So how is the much smaller Galaxy fleet going to replace them? It's like replacing a bunch of destroyers with a battleship.

Well one reason is that the Oberth a extremely old ship, old design, and was limited in what it could do.

The Galaxy class I am sure was not the only ship replaceing the Oberth. The Excellsior, Nebula, Nove class are more then able to do the job.

Remember your allways hearing when a certain ship came back from a mission exploreing and charting entire solar systems, gas giants, meeting several races. I do not see a Oberth being able to do that because it does not have the resources to do it.

Also what would be the point of having many of this ships being they have no militaristic value. What I mean is that there not very fast and not very powerfull. What use do they have in a war?

Basically I see the ship of taking up useful recoures to were they could be used towards a more multi-purpose ship. Even a ship like the Nova is way more uselful.

[Teaos]

Yeah I always thought the Nova replaced the Oberth.

The Galaxy is a powerful science ship but I doubt it would hang around a planet for a year gathering data.

[Monroe]

The reason you don't see battleships today is because carriers and airstrikes can completely destroy the battleship.

Jump to Star Trek where there are vitually no fighters and capital ships behave similiar to fighters and are extremely manuverable and can even have massive dog fights.

You can go either way. One way saying that because there aren't swarms of fighters to worry about and small ships can't do much damage go all out and make massive 9 kilometer long ones. Or you can go the other way and say that since capital ships are so manuverable and balanced at the cruiser level that making a battleship would be a sitting duck against loads of smaller capital ships.

[Bryan Moore]

Have we seen a Dominion dreadnaught get taken down on screen? I know that is the extreme of ultra massive ships, but I don't see that as a sitting duck to anything short of a fleet of capital ships.

[Sionnach Glic]

It would be slow, but it would probably make up for that with a tonne of weapons. I could see it taking on fleets and winning. Especially with support.

[robjkay]

The reason you don't see battleships today is because carriers and airstrikes can completely destroy the battleship.

Jump to Star Trek where there are vitually no fighters and capital ships behave similiar to fighters and are extremely manuverable and can even have massive dog fights.

You can go either way. One way saying that because there aren't swarms of fighters to worry about and small ships can't do much damage go all out and make massive 9 kilometer long ones. Or you can go the other way and say that since capital ships are so manuverable and balanced at the cruiser level that making a battleship would be a sitting duck against loads of smaller capital ships.

Actually there seemed to be alot of fighters used during the Dominion war by the Federation and it seemed like they did very little damage to the ships.

[Teaos]

I think fighters are mainly to draw enemy fire and annoy the enemy while Capital ships do the damage. They would also be good for taking down damaged ships. There only us is fleet actions as supporting roles.

[Monroe]

in most Sci-Fis that have fighters their role is to provide defense for the areas where the capital ships' weapons can't reach to maximize defense of capital ships. Which since Star Trek's ships are so manuverable is another reason why the Trek universe doesn't have them.