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29. Anytime that Sisko or Kira managed to diplomatically insult Kai Winn.

DBS wrote:Thank you. Dramatic, yes. Very Trek-like? No.

Indeed it was not like the federation. I saw those parts of DS9 as the federation's fall from grace.

I rather saw it as the end of an impossible dream, and the arrival in the harsh reality.

I just can't understand how could the Federation have survived, thrived and bested if they ALWAYS (not "most of the time", not "quasi-everytime, but always) acted in the goody holier-than-thou depicted in TNG (or TOS).

The Federation has to deal with... some treath with the the approprial response. It doesn't mean that it won't take the hard way to stick to it's principles - most of the time -, but when there isn't any other way, they won't let their civilization die by playing fair.

The morale thing to do, is to avoid those kind of.. harsh decision whenever possible. But the stupid thing to do would refuse to do it even if there isn't any other choice.

Did Section 31's genocide attempt prevented the loss of millions of lives? 30% of the invasion fleet, not counting the ground troops that had to be landed on Cardassia. Not counting the Cardassians who were dying by the thousands at every second..

So, the Federation saved all those lives by doing something.. dark.

I can live with it. I... can, live with it.

Computer, erase that entire log.

*bip*

The thing is, the TOS Federation (or Kirk at least) didn't act holier than thou. Kirk's MO was that if the alien-of-the-week wanted to be friendly, then no problem. If they didn't, and persisted in causing trouble after being warned, he resorted to as much firepower as was necessary to solve the problem. It's only in TNG that the holier-than-thou BS started. It was also the time that the Prime Directive became a lot more letter of the law rather than the spirit (can you image Kirk letting entire species die rather than break the PD).

EDIT: 100 posts

I'd say this is because things might have (more or less) stabalised during the TNG and TOS eras.
If the local races are more peacefull, or at least less expansionist, it would be easier to act in a more TNG manner.

I still can't figure out how anyone could justify letting an entire race of inteligent creatures die though.

Seafort, congrats on 100!

30: (although this would be my number 2, second to what is in this list number 3):

how it continued the Trek tradition of commentary of 20th- and 21st-century society, but in its most explicit, perhaps its most biting form, most notably I'd say with Past Tense

31) And how it tackled the issue of homosexuality with "rejoined"

No I can understand the logic of letting a race die out. If you start breaking the rules when do you stop?

32) Rom
33) Pike City Pioneers Baseball
34) Klingon bachelor party

SolkaTruesilver wrote:31) And how it tackled the issue of homosexuality with "rejoined"

How was that about homosexuality? There was no mention at all about how they were two women.

The issue was the reassociation. No one cared that they were both female...

Tiberius wrote:

SolkaTruesilver wrote:31) And how it tackled the issue of homosexuality with "rejoined"

How was that about homosexuality? There was no mention at all about how they were two women.

The issue was the reassociation. No one cared that they were both female...

And that's the point. No one cared. No one made any mention of it being a same sex relationship, which shows that in 24th century Trek, they are not considered abnormal or unusual.

No I can understand the logic of letting a race die out.

Could you explain? Because I can't imagine any one could justify that.

Who are we to play god?

Imagin if a alien species had been watching earth 65 million years ago and decided the Dinosaures were worth saving an thus blasted that Astroid out of the sky. we wouldn't be here now.

No one can see the future. If a race can't save its self it is not for us to save it. Unless its our fault in the first place of corse. But then we are just fixing our mistakes.

So if I see someone who has just been run over by a car I should just leave him lying on the road, right? After all, I have no idea what he might do in the future.

Teaos wrote:Who are we to play god?

Imagin if a alien species had been watching earth 65 million years ago and decided the Dinosaures were worth saving an thus blasted that Astroid out of the sky. we wouldn't be here now.

No one can see the future. If a race can't save its self it is not for us to save it. Unless its our fault in the first place of corse. But then we are just fixing our mistakes.

We are not talking about letting die protozoid bacteries, or even under-brained life form. We are talking about saving a whole culture, a whole people. Which is.. different, IMHO.

I don't see why StarFleet would accept to save a specie from impending doom ONLY if it has developped Warp drive...

The trick would be saving them in a way they don't know they were even threatened.

I wonder if Starfleet has another mean of determining a specie's technological advancement except for Warp drive? What if they discovered something that is even beyond Federation's technical skills, however, that is totally un-related to space travel?

I dunnow.. like a perfect replicator? can replicate life form exactly as the original? That is way better than Starfleet can do. Don't they deserve first contact?