www.ditl.org

Blackstar - here's the point. I DID mention the fact about needing contact when one has a job. As far as checking in on my 3.5 year old daughter while she's at school, what would you propose that I do - have her IM me? As far as "just" everyday communication, have you ever left your house? If you're solely using a computer/the interweb to communicate, what do you do when you're not in front of one? When you grow up and get a job, try telling them that you can't be reached most of the time - or even find the time to be in front of a computer all day.

This irrelevant tangent about nobody but Blackstar being able to work a computer is a bit ridiculous. You said folks of Kendall's (and by extension, mine, as I'm a bit older than him if anything) generation were incapable of using modern computers properly. I'd like to introduce you to someone - he is about my age if not a year or two older, IIRC, and his name is Ian Kennedy. He put together THIS FRIGGIN' WEBSITE and SUPPORTS HIS FAMILY by doing more with computers than you (or I) could.

You went on to say "any idiot can read" with zero facts to back it up. You obviously made no endeavor to research anything about the matter, or you would know how sadly high illiteracy rates are. Unless you're going to try to argue Noam Chomsky's case (and I'd laugh in your face if you did, though I doubt you actually know of his hypotheses) then give me an example of a person who is born knowing language and literacy. In addition, instruction in these areas goes on to critical reading and comprehension as well as vocabulary - in addition, your take on literacy is a bit funny, as you chronically misspell words - the same ones, which indicates that the issue is not typos - and are incapable of properly distinguishing between certain homophones.

Finally, when did I, or Kendall, or anyone at all claim that we shouldn't instruct our children in the use of computers? In fact I only opened the whole segment up because YOU mentioned that you were having problems keeping in communication with your girlfriend.

As far as checking in on my 3.5 year old daughter while she's at school, what would you propose that I do - have her IM me?

Anything sounds stupid when you say it with that attitude.

If you're solely using a computer/the interweb to communicate, what do you do when you're not in front of one?

Uh...I use my mouth to talk to people...Is that what you mean?

he is about my age if not a year or two older, IIRC, and his name is Ian Kennedy. He put together THIS FRIGGIN' WEBSITE and SUPPORTS HIS FAMILY by doing more with computers than you (or I) could.

To be fair I'm still in school, and I don't plan on running websites and such. I plan on working on games, and I don't mean the little stuff you download for your daughter I'm talking about the big shots like Bungie here. And I know a guy even older then you two who was a big shot back in the day, even he admits we'll probably surpass him soon because of how fast computer technology evolves

in addition, your take on literacy is a bit funny, as you chronically misspell words - the same ones, which indicates that the issue is not typos - and are incapable of properly distinguishing between certain homophones

Forums are like talking to your friends. You don't have to do it correctly.

Finally, when did I, or Kendall, or anyone at all claim that we shouldn't instruct our children in the use of computers?

Uh Kendall said:

And lets face it, on the list of things to learn the net is pretty far down there compared to critical life skills

Old man thinking. Computers and the internet are used for just about everything these days. Phones, cars, GPS, you name it they'll try to stick a chip in it.

ChakatBlackstar wrote:Anything sounds stupid when you say it with that attitude.

Which attitude - the one which I use to indicate that I don't expect things which are outside the realm of possibility?

ChakatBlackstar wrote:Uh...I use my mouth to talk to people...Is that what you mean?

Being intentionally obtuse doesn't actually further your position. To bring this to the level you indicate with this statement, then why aren't you just using your mouth to talk to your girlfriend? (No, I didn't mean it that way.)

ChakatBlackstar wrote:even he admits we'll probably surpass him soon because of how fast computer technology evolves

Which indicates the matter being a fact of being contemporary with the most current technology; patently NOT because, as you seem to think, anybody older than 19 is an idiot simply because of the fact of their age.

ChakatBlackstar wrote:Forums are like talking to your friends. You don't have to do it correctly.

That certainly sounds like a fair excuse, but using an incorrect word provides no advantage - so there's really no reason to use an incorrect term or spelling except for inability to do so.

ChakatBlackstar wrote: Old man thinking. Computers and the internet are used for just about everything these days. Phones, cars, GPS, you name it they'll try to stick a chip in it.

Educating someone in computer use - for example - without a groundwork of basics from which that skill is derived is hollow at best, and self-defeating at worst. Yes, computer use is an inevitable fact of modern life; this does not mean, however, that basic skills are no longer relevant. In fact, it means quite the opposite.

Just thought of something else: if you prefer to communicate via the internet rather than phone, then you must need a laptop with wireless access whenever you are outside your home. However, your reasoning for not having a cell phone was not wanting to be tied to an "electronic leash," as someone put it. Yet how is a laptop any different, except bigger?

To bring this to the level you indicate with this statement, then why aren't you just using your mouth to talk to your girlfriend? (No, I didn't mean it that way.)

I can't shout that loud

as you seem to think, anybody older than 19 is an idiot simply because of the fact of their age.

Now that's not true. I think older people have a tendency to be idiots more often then they think. Old people automatically assume they're supirior then young people because of their experiance

but using an incorrect word provides no advantage - so there's really no reason to use an incorrect term or spelling except for inability to do so

I don't have time to edit every minor thing

Educating someone in computer use - for example - without a groundwork of basics from which that skill is derived is hollow at best, and self-defeating at worst. Yes, computer use is an inevitable fact of modern life; this does not mean, however, that basic skills are no longer relevant. In fact, it means quite the opposite.

Yes, but that doesn't mean wasting so much time on it.

if you prefer to communicate via the internet rather than phone, then you must need a laptop with wireless access whenever you are outside your home. However, your reasoning for not having a cell phone was not wanting to be tied to an "electronic leash," as someone put it. Yet how is a laptop any different, except bigger?

I usually don't carry a means of communications with me except for emergencies. I have spent time with people who get upset over not having a signal. I once found myself upset that I didn't have a signal. That's when I realized just how the technology began dominating my life. I prefer to dominate the technology not let it run my life like so many other people have.

I've just found that I'm never too far from a phone if I need to use one. Plus, any job I can get won't be trying to reach me at all; if they do need to, they'll have my home number. When I'm not working, I'm at home; maybe at the store, or at a friend's house. They can leave a message, and I'll call them back. I just honestly don't have the money for two phones, so I can either have a cell (which, as I said, I would rarely need - plus they cost more), or I can keep my land line, and by extention, my internet access.

Everybody's case is different; I'm certainly not saying I don't see the need for people to have one, I'm just saying I don't need or want one.

On the subject of literacy, I often take for granted how easy it was for me to learn; while most kids spent their free time going to arcades, or playing sports, I went to the Huntington Beach Library. Man, that place rocks.

*sigh*

I can't shout that loud

Precisely. So how are you supposed to get in touch with someone who isn't in your immediate area if you don't have access to a computer? How are other people supposed to contact you if they don't have access to a computer?

Now that's not true. I think older people have a tendency to be idiots more often then they think. Old people automatically assume they're supirior then young people because of their experiance

I'd refute that statement, but I'm too busy laughing at it.

I don't have time to edit every minor thing

It doesn't take editing; it just takes knowing how to spell things correctly in the first place.

I usually don't carry a means of communications with me except for emergencies. I

And how are people supposed to contact you if there's an emergency? I rarely, if ever, use my mobile, yet I keep it in my pocket if I go out in case anyone needs to contact me urgently.

That's when I realized just how the technology began dominating my life. I prefer to dominate the technology not let it run my life like so many other people have.

So carrying a phone in your pocket is letting technology "dominate" your life? Whatever.

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
Oh, sure...let's not learn this stuff because the technical guys got it covered. It's not like they have anything better to do with their times then to custom create crap for your company and then get ******* bitched at because they weren't specific enough about what they wanted or that you took too long. Here's an actual conversation one of my teachers had:

"Well it sure took you long enough."
"What does that mean?"
"Well it took you six weeks."
"Have you, or any of your staff ever created a program like this?"
"No"
"Well, this type of program takes eight weeks to create, and I gave it to you in six."

It's not like a mechanic where they can only fix cars with their jobs, programmers can create useful programs. Yet because of dumbass people aka "average users" prefer to force programmers to do everything. And we can barely keep up with demand resulting in crap that people complain about, but you take too long and they complain about it taking too long. And because the why part of why it's difficult is so complex that the 'average user' thinks that you're just BSing them because they couldn't tell you the difference between ASCII code and C++.

Okay...rant over. Go back to your lives citizens.

Chakat, this is frankly BS. Children have more than enough to learn in elementry school, the institution is there to teach them the basic knowledge they require for everything else. This is a known fact. Adding in programing to their curriculum before they can fragging read is going to be pointless and add in another level of frustration to the children, the teachers and the parents. The whole point of the school system is to teach the next generation what they require in steps. Teaching a small child to program (for example) just wastes time, thay can't fragging read!

I know it's hard for you to accept that the world didn't spring into existance when you were born but give us a break.

I had a computer lab in Kindergarten, but I knew how to read several years before I started school, so it wasn't any additional work; all we did was play little word and math games anyways. Something like that, I can see, but trying to teach K-2 kids to use the internet, or create programs is a bit much.

Tsukiyumi wrote:I had a computer lab in Kindergarten, but I knew how to read several years before I started school, so it wasn't any additional work; all we did was play little word and math games anyways. Something like that, I can see, but trying to teach K-2 kids to use the internet, or create programs is a bit much.

That's all they do in kindergarten with PC's. Math and word games, like you say, it's just to reinforce the literacy skills and introduce them to PC's as some of them may not have them at home.

Cpl Kendall wrote:That's all they do in kindergarten with PC's. Math and word games, like you say, it's just to reinforce the literacy skills and introduce them to PC's as some of them may not have them at home.

In 1986, not many people did have them at home. One of the few times I wasn't at some disadvantage.

I think more advanced computer courses in grades 6 and up would be great, except that a lot of teachers don't know jack about it, either. I can't remember how many times I had to troubleshoot something, or fix printers in middle school. Though, to be fair, printers always suck.

Tsukiyumi wrote:
In 1986, not many people did have them at home. One of the few times I wasn't at some disadvantage.

Indeed.

I think more advanced computer courses in grades 6 and up would be great, except that a lot of teachers don't know jack about it, either. I can't remember how many times I had to troubleshoot something, or fix printers in middle school. Though, to be fair, printers always suck.

By all means a graduated computer program in the older grades is reasonable. And has been around up here for over a decade and a half, that's not in dispute but rather this ridiculous assumption that a 4 year old can be taught to program before they can read.

I rather enjoy fixing printers (the high end Lexmarks) except for the old impact printers, what a pain in the arse those where.

the latest in my life: Ive noticed there are lots of angry people on DITL.

WHAT!!!! HOW DARE YOU-

Oh right. The anger. Sorry, Dev.

MetalHead wrote:the latest in my life: Ive noticed there are lots of angry people on DITL.

There are?

What makes you say that?