Adding a third nacell?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:23 pm

Given that it was:
A) Barely moving relative to the ship.
B) No more than a hundred metres away (at most).
it's still pretty funny that he could miss so badly.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:31 pm

Or was it said ironic.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:32 pm

klingons,irony,sardonically,never

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:33 pm

a big chalange for a warrior

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:35 pm

if a klingon can walk and think at the same time, then i'm an ammonite

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:40 pm

Well, Klingon foreheads do look suspiciously like they've got the side of an ammonite pertruding from their heads...

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:40 pm

Anyway I think the section with the defiant clearly shows that maneuverability can make a huge difference in how many hits you take.

Also the ram at the end reminded me of something. In Trek you have the endgame move of ramming. The classic ram+warp core overload has wiped out, well, all sorts of stuff that otherwise would be WAY to powerful for the craft to handle.

That would be another reason for not keeping all your eggs in one basket.

As for how often they miss. I think it's just for dramatic effect. On the other hand how slow the ships move is also for dramatic effect, so it kinda balances out. In "reality" the ships could be whipping around at speeds that are a significant portion of the speed of light and firing weapons at targets that are hundreds of kilometers distance. At those ranges and speeds not only is getting a firing solution hard but if the other ship is doing even minor course alterations you'll miss. Systems would probably be playing a computer guessing game of exactly where the other ship will go.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:12 pm

sunnyside wrote:As for how often they miss. I think it's just for dramatic effect. On the other hand how slow the ships move is also for dramatic effect, so it kinda balances out. In "reality" the ships could be whipping around at speeds that are a significant portion of the speed of light and firing weapons at targets that are hundreds of kilometers distance. At those ranges and speeds not only is getting a firing solution hard but if the other ship is doing even minor course alterations you'll miss. Systems would probably be playing a computer guessing game of exactly where the other ship will go.

Under suspension of disbelief we have to assume that what we see is what's actually happening - so the ships "really" are travelling at a few km/sec and fighting at ranges of a few km. "Dramatic effect" doesn't enter into it.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:45 pm

Well than the targeting systems just stink. Probably drunk. The navy, all Rum, sodomy and the lash.

(Actually anybody remember where that quote origionally comes from, I can't recall where I heard it.)

Either way, if you're smaller and maneuverable you can put the enemies hit % well below 50. And when going evasive you make them miss a lot more than when you aren't (i.e. the Duras sisters wiffing after data starts going evasive, or when the defiant is maneuvering instead of firing).

So splitting up into harder to hit targets and having the targeted section evade while the others pound should work well.

One other thing. Splitting up might improve the hit rate because, presumably, it's harder to shoot when the crewmembers are busy flying over the captains head and the consols are going up like Chinese new years. And those things often start happening during the first hits in a battle.

So you could have a couple sections riding smooth and blasting away at a single enemy ship while the third section evades whatever the tactical officer manages to fire when they aren't busy lurching all over. That tactic would be particularly effective against the many designs that focus most of their firepower into a single arc. For example the Akira.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:50 pm

sunnyside wrote:Well than the targeting systems just stink. Probably drunk. The navy, all Rum, sodomy and the lash.

(Actually anybody remember where that quote origionally comes from, I can't recall where I heard it.)

Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill, origin of most of the great quotes of the twentieth century.

Jordanis · Post by **Jordanis** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:34 pm

...yeah, the Akira would be pretty vulnerable to a group of more maneuverable ships.

I have to wonder why the Defiant didn't generate that kind of miss % against the Lakota, though. As for the Duras sisters, well that's what you get when you mix villains and comic relief.

Enkidu · Post by **Enkidu** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:38 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
sunnyside wrote:Well than the targeting systems just stink. Probably drunk. The navy, all Rum, sodomy and the lash.

(Actually anybody remember where that quote origionally comes from, I can't recall where I heard it.)
Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill, origin of most of the great quotes of the twentieth century.

Beat me to it....

Blackstar the Chakat · Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:45 pm

Jordanis wrote:...yeah, the Akira would be pretty vulnerable to a group of more maneuverable ships.

I have to wonder why the Defiant didn't generate that kind of miss % against the Lakota, though. As for the Duras sisters, well that's what you get when you mix villains and comic relief.

The defiant was engaged at close-range, perhaps even the equivelent of point-blank. At that range it would be harder not to hit them. I'm not sure what Worf was thinking in that battle. I know the rules say he wasn't allowed to use the cloak, but it wouldn't be the first time they used it in the Alpha quadrent.

Jordanis · Post by **Jordanis** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:55 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
Jordanis wrote:...yeah, the Akira would be pretty vulnerable to a group of more maneuverable ships.

I have to wonder why the Defiant didn't generate that kind of miss % against the Lakota, though. As for the Duras sisters, well that's what you get when you mix villains and comic relief.
The defiant was engaged at close-range, perhaps even the equivelent of point-blank. At that range it would be harder not to hit them. I'm not sure what Worf was thinking in that battle. I know the rules say he wasn't allowed to use the cloak, but it wouldn't be the first time they used it in the Alpha quadrent.

Yeah, but looking at that video, there's shot after shot of the Defiant skimming by ships at point blank and skipping away without being hit. And those Dominion Bugs were pretty close for all their missing, too. The only explanation I can come up with is that Federation fire control blows everyone else's out of the water.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:01 pm

I don't remember the Lakota/Defiant battle that well.

But I know my general impression is that federation phasors are elegant high accuracy weapons, while disrupters give you rugged weapons with higher total outputs and the ability to scale up. Sort of a Stoner vs AK thing. Especially the "pulse" type ones that seem to hit like torpedos but miss even big targets.