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Thorin wrote:Irrelevant whether it was developed. Voyager could supply it on demand. The most plausable explanation is that ships were either due refits (the E-E was refitted at the end of Nemesis, it's possible it was getting it at that time), or that they weren't installed during peacetime so that anything like an arms race happened, or so that other AQ powers didn't see the Feds getting all powerful and ganging together.

The Defiant and E-E had QTs from the get-go, so the "didn't want to worry the neighbours" argument falls flat on its face. You claim that Voyager could "supply it on demand" and yet the most powerful ship in the fleet had sod-all. Conclusion - they had problems developing it for fleet-wide use.

They could create it. It's not unsupported - Voyager did it. I'm sure many other ships could, and even if they couldn't, Voyager would just be a breeding machine. There is no indication that a Negh'var isn't the most powerful ship the Klingons have 25 years in the future. In fact, before the Neghvar was created, I seem to remember the Klingons kept their previous most powerful ship for a hundred years or some other large figure.
Also the Galaxy in All Good Things was much more than a match for two Neghvars - a ship which was due for retirement!

Actually the previous Klingon battleship - the Vor'cha - was only a couple of decades old, and the previous one had been through at least two major refits despite the basic hull shape remaining the same.

Captain Seafort wrote: The Defiant and E-E had QTs from the get-go, so the "didn't want to worry the neighbours" argument falls flat on its face. You claim that Voyager could "supply it on demand" and yet the most powerful ship in the fleet had sod-all. Conclusion - they had problems developing it for fleet-wide use.

Not worrying the neighbours is perfectly fine. Quantum torpedos we'd guess have maybe twice the power of a photon. Transphasics have it several orders of mangitude more - pretty worying for enemies and clearly not a 'normal' upgrade on QTs.

• We know that Voyager had the ability to replicate unlimited transphasic torpedos.
• We know they can be fired out of standard torpedo tubes.
• We know that most ships have standard torpedo tubes.
• We know one ship in the fleet didn't have the upgrades

Conclusion; it hadn't been refitted yet for a huge multitude of reasons.

Actually the previous Klingon battleship - the Vor'cha - was only a couple of decades old, and the previous one had been through at least two major refits despite the basic hull shape remaining the same.

20 years is still a long time. And there is no suggestion that the Negh'var didn't get refitted to keep up with the times too in the future - just as the Bird of Preys did, which were the most powerful Klingon ships (or Ktingas, whichever) for a hundred and odd years.

We know that Voyager had the ability to replicate unlimited transphasic torpedos.

we don't know that. We only see that Voyger fired a few torpedos how many did it have it is unknown.
What is interesting is that Voyeger was able to fire the next generation of torpedos from standart P tubes. [/quote]

mlsnoopy wrote: we don't know that. We only see that Voyger fired a few torpedos how many did it have it is unknown.

Yes... We do. It modified an absolute minimum of 7 - the ones seen fired onscreen (3 v cubes, 3 v gate, 1 v sphere). We'd assume they would have done a whole lot more than that too. There is absolutely no reason what so ever that they couldn't modify more.

Modified I belive that is the key word. Modified with what, a component that Jenwey brought back from the future and that can not be replicated.

mlsnoopy wrote:Modified I belive that is the key word. Modified with what, a component that Jenwey brought back from the future and that can not be replicated.

There is no indication that future Janeway brought anything back besides the schematics. Also, even if she did, Voyager still has this component and so she could just act as a breeding ship.

She could but she didn't. As far as we know they locked up voy to never be used again.

Deepcrush wrote:She could but she didn't. As far as we know they locked up voy

Possibly.

to never be used again.

Complete and utter conjecture. They still had voyager and had access to it if it were required. During peacetime, super weapons aren't required and could spur an arms race, upset the balance of 'power/peace', or wory the neighbours.

Thorin, you have in no way demonstrated that Voyager can produce even one TT, let alone an unlimited supply of them. It is possible that Admiral Janeway only brought a limited number of warheads into the past with her, which would explain the complete lack of TTs on the E-E. If they could be easilly reproduced then why does the E-E have them? There would be no indication from looking that the ship was carrying anything but standard torpedoes.

Thorin wrote:

to never be used again.

Complete and utter conjecture. They still had voyager and had access to it if it were required. During peacetime, super weapons aren't required and could spur an arms race, upset the balance of 'power/peace', or wory the neighbours.

Very well, provide canon evidence of Endgame technology being used post-Endgame. If you can't, then that absense of evidence must be taken as evidence of absence. I reiterate that that "it might upset the neighbours" is not a valid argument - the Feds would still posess the technology, the Tal Shiar or some other such organisation would probably find out and try and steal it (as they did with the Prometheus) and you're screwed, because they certainly will develop and deploy the tech, leaving the Federation playing catch-up.

Thorin wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:She could but she didn't. As far as we know they locked up voy

Possibly.

to never be used again.

Complete and utter conjecture. They still had voyager and had access to it if it were required. During peacetime, super weapons aren't required and could spur an arms race, upset the balance of 'power/peace', or wory the neighbours.

You should read the "As far as we KNOW" part of what I said. You have a idea that you would like to use. But, just because you like the thought of it doesnt' make it cannon. Sorry.

Captain Seafort wrote:Thorin, you have in no way demonstrated that Voyager can produce even one TT, let alone an unlimited supply of them. It is possible that Admiral Janeway only brought a limited number of warheads into the past with her, which would explain the complete lack of TTs on the E-E.

As would the other explanations I've gave countless times.

If they could be easilly reproduced then why does the E-E have them? There would be no indication from looking that the ship was carrying anything but standard torpedoes./quote]

Must I say again. I'll just start copying and pasting.
During peacetime, super weapons aren't required and could spur an arms race, upset the balance of 'power/peace', or wory the neighbours.

Deepcrush wrote: You should read the "As far as we KNOW" part of what I said. You have a idea that you would like to use. But, just because you like the thought of it doesnt' make it cannon. Sorry.

I read it. It's still wrong and conjecture.
We know that the Federation has access to future weapons and future armour.
Whether it is used at any particular time is irrelevant. If it has access to them, then they can use it.

Now your just acting stupid kid. You need to think about this. We all get over taken with our ideas once in a while but you've just gone past that point and hit foolish. Time to stop and think.

Deepcrush wrote:Super weapons? Now your just acting stupid kid. You need to think about this. We all get over taken with our ideas once in a while but you've just gone past that point and hit foolish. Time to stop and think.