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Even though I'm not there at the moment it is now Christmas in NZ, still another 12 hours to wait for me now though...

I really feel like putting as my fb status "you all do know that Christmas has nothing at all to do with Christ himself.". But I think I'll do it tomorrow instead.

Like all matters of faith, its only as important as you believe it to be.

Nickswitz wrote:I really feel like putting as my fb status "you all do know that Christmas has nothing at all to do with Christ himself.". But I think I'll do it tomorrow instead.

Well, it does - it's a celebration of Jesus' birth, no matter that it's on the wrong date to be historically accurate. I don't think that lessens the importance that people of faith put on the event.

What is learned by him being born? He was born. He did nothing until he was about 30 when he was baptized, so his birth represents nothing, and the connection to Jesus himself is little to nothing, it was never intended to be a connection to him, it was intended, as you pointed out in the other thread, to increase the size of christianity by making an equivalent celebration to the pagans so they wouldn't care if they were now Christians.

Nickswitz wrote:What is learned by him being born? He was born. He did nothing until he was about 30 when he was baptized, so his birth represents nothing, and the connection to Jesus himself is little to nothing, it was never intended to be a connection to him, it was intended, as you pointed out in the other thread, to increase the size of christianity by making an equivalent celebration to the pagans so they wouldn't care if they were now Christians.

If he were conceived and born in the regular manner, I would completely agree. However, one of the central ideas of the faith however is the concept of the Virgin birth. It could be said taht Christmas is not so much a celebration of his birth as a celebration of the miracle of his birth. And, even if he did nothing until he was baptized (depending on who you read...) he was still God made Man, so his birth is not just the birth of another human, it's the birth of God in the flesh.

{Note: This is all just my opinionated rationalizing. YMMV}

{Edit: On another note, I have been considering wishing people a "Happy Millenia Old Pagan Holiday that is Actually Totally Unrelated to Christianity" instead of "Merry Christmas" }

Sonic Glitch wrote: {Edit: On another note, I have been considering wishing people a "Happy Millenia Old Pagan Holiday that is Actually Totally Unrelated to Christianity" instead of "Merry Christmas" }

I like this idea, sounds fun and confusing.

Nickswitz wrote:

Sonic Glitch wrote: {Edit: On another note, I have been considering wishing people a "Happy Millenia Old Pagan Holiday that is Actually Totally Unrelated to Christianity" instead of "Merry Christmas" }

I like this idea, sounds fun and confusing.

Mmhm. A friend told me yesterday that some guy he didn't know came up to him randomly and wished him a Merry Christmas. "Not wanting to deal with strangers, and for the shock value, I replied with saying 'I'm pagan.' He looked extremely uncomfortable as he walked away."

Nickswitz wrote:What is learned by him being born? He was born. He did nothing until he was about 30 when he was baptized, so his birth represents nothing,

Well, actually it does signify a lot, something like a first spark of hope returning to the world and a whole lot more theological concepts. Then, he also had an early start at 12 when he started lecturing the old guys at the temple as a young upstart, and various myths filled in the rest of his life in between.

Nickswitz wrote:What is learned by him being born? He was born. He did nothing until he was about 30 when he was baptized, so his birth represents nothing, and the connection to Jesus himself is little to nothing, it was never intended to be a connection to him, it was intended, as you pointed out in the other thread, to increase the size of christianity by making an equivalent celebration to the pagans so they wouldn't care if they were now Christians.

Well, without him being born... he wouldn't be able to do all that stuff later on in life. So, yeah. Significant merely for that.

Yeah, people get the same way when I tell them I'm a Jehovah's Witness, they look at me scared I'm going to start preaching to them. Haha

Today while at Lowe's I saw a gentleman who was trying to lift his vans hood to put in antifreeze, but he was in a wheelchair (he ws in the handicapped section) so I started walking over to help him out, and as I got there the hood of his van slipped out of his hand and gashed his forehead pretty bad. So I ended up standing out there for about 20 minutes helping him out, called 911, then called his mother, he was mentally handicapped, who was worried, although quick glad that I had showed up to help, and then put the antifreeze in the van. The worst part was had I gotten there like 30 seconds earlier there would be no gash in his forehead, and he wouldn't need a hospital visit, although I'm still exceptionally glad that I could help him out.

So I feel jittery and hyped up on adrenaline. Which is a fun feeling at first, but when it starts wearing off it feels pretty crappy.

shran wrote:Well, actually it does signify a lot, something like a first spark of hope returning to the world and a whole lot more theological concepts. Then, he also had an early start at 12 when he started lecturing the old guys at the temple as a young upstart, and various myths filled in the rest of his life in between.

But until he was baptized he was not "obligated" to die for our sins, that was only after he was baptized that he said he would willingly give his life to save the world. So him being born means nothing, he was a gifted child when he was young, but he did not give any hope until he was baptized.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Well, without him being born... he wouldn't be able to do all that stuff later on in life. So, yeah. Significant merely for that.

Yeah, thats the only real way that it matters, because nothing that he did as a child affects us at all. If you believe it does anything for us now at all.

Well, got a call from someone today. Had no idea who it was. Talked for about five minutes. Very odd.

In fact, even St. Clement dated Jesus' birth to May 20th. However, for those who believe that Jesus was the Christ, his birth is hugely significant no matter when during the year it occurred - his birth meant his arrival on Earth to perform the role for which he was destined.

Nick, you honestly can't see the importance of Christ being born???

Being very firmly non-religious, i dont find anything significant. But., several million christians obviously do. As, strangely, do muslims as they believe him another prophet as far as Reema tells me. Although, Jesus dont hold a candle to Mohammid (PBUH) of course.