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Captain Seafort wrote:

Jim wrote:One could say that the Romulans gave up the active persuit of conflict... war or expansion. The Romulans are a warrior race, the Federation is not. So the UFoP gave up cloaking to gain peace of mind against attack/war. ??? maybe...

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again - the only sane explanation for Algeron is that the Tomed Incident was a catastrophic Fed defeat, and the cloaking ban was imposed on them by the Romulans as part of a victors' peace.

I was thinking about this. How is this a catastophic defeat for the Feds? The Romulans went into isolation after this.

We do not know what happened. All we know it cost thousands of lives and led the Romulans into isloation and the Federation abandoning cloaking devices. My guess it was a large battle between the two that the Romulans realized in the end, it could not match the Federation or it cost them dearly. I also think the Federation possessing cloaking devices worried the Romulans as well.

It just makes no sense to me to have the Romulans go into self imposed isolation if they were the victors in the incident.

Well, Spock said "they're dieing" so I figured they were in a REALLY bad spot.

Jim wrote:Well, Spock said "they're dieing" so I figured they were in a REALLY bad spot.

A really really bad spot.

What would have happened had the Federation 'let them die', or if the assasination of the Federation President had succeeded?

I'm just putting this out there, but I think if you "let something die," that something will probably die. Just guessing.

Mikey wrote:I'm just putting this out there, but I think if you "let something die," that something will probably die. Just guessing.

Mikey wrote:I'm just putting this out there, but I think if you "let something die," that something will probably die. Just guessing.

Everything dies. In fact you are dying right now, minute by minute, second by second.

Faster than you might think.

Can't believe I didn't think of this first, responding to a Jersey boy and all:

"Everything dies, baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies one day comes back
Put your make up on, do your hair up pretty
And meet me tonight in Atlantic City."

Mikey wrote: Can't believe I didn't think of this first, responding to a Jersey boy and all:

"Everything dies, baby that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies one day comes back
Put your make up on, do your hair up pretty
And meet me tonight in Atlantic City."

If the Klingon main source of dilithium was destroyed in the explosion of Praxis would that not force them to expand to find another source? Which the federation knew would happen but offered help to stop the impending invasion/ expansion to grab the needed resources and try hold the empire in check at least for a short while.

Mikey wrote:I think the other problem with the loss of Praxis was that it supplied the vast majority of the Klingons' dilithium.

Fighting a war without fuel for your ships is only a minor concern afterall...

colmquinn wrote:If the Klingon main source of dilithium was destroyed in the explosion of Praxis would that not force them to expand to find another source? Which the federation knew would happen but offered help to stop the impending invasion/ expansion to grab the needed resources and try hold the empire in check at least for a short while.

Its not just about expanding. There's nothing to say that there wasn't another vain they could mine within the Empire. However, mining isn't just a "we own that planet thus have instant resources". The loss of such an evolved production center means that you now have to rebuild said center. Or in the case of Praxis, you have to re-dig a whole new world. Then set up the mining operation, then set up your material processing centers, then you have to refine the now separated materials, then turn it into fuel and then ship it out to your fleet.

McAvoy wrote:

Captain Seafort wrote:

Jim wrote:One could say that the Romulans gave up the active persuit of conflict... war or expansion. The Romulans are a warrior race, the Federation is not. So the UFoP gave up cloaking to gain peace of mind against attack/war. ??? maybe...

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again - the only sane explanation for Algeron is that the Tomed Incident was a catastrophic Fed defeat, and the cloaking ban was imposed on them by the Romulans as part of a victors' peace.

I was thinking about this. How is this a catastophic defeat for the Feds? The Romulans went into isolation after this.

We do not know what happened. All we know it cost thousands of lives and led the Romulans into isloation and the Federation abandoning cloaking devices. My guess it was a large battle between the two that the Romulans realized in the end, it could not match the Federation or it cost them dearly. I also think the Federation possessing cloaking devices worried the Romulans as well.

It just makes no sense to me to have the Romulans go into self imposed isolation if they were the victors in the incident.

The most likely outcome of the Tomed Incident is that it was a stalemate. Thousands of lives lost in a battle that made both sides figure out that neither side was really up for the war. The UFP didn't want to fight it and the RSE couldn't win it. So both sides came to the table, made some meaningless trade off to save face and then parted ways.

I think that Tomed is a UFP system so I would say that the UFP won.