musings on the most famous of grudges

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:52 pm

Because the Federation has a greater technology level. As I already said.

The Feds have a slight lead in some areas. They have average warp drive as enemy ships are just as fast. There weapons are ruffly the same power. Armor is a joke mostly.

Not really enough to justify us having an easy advantage because of it.

In what way is it pointless? Its rather pointless to debate wether a Galaxy class could take on a Galor, yet everyone here does this. Myself and you included.

It is not pointless to judge them against in universe stuff. It is pointless to judhe them against OUR military standards though as they are not in universe.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:32 am

Captain Seafort wrote: But in Star Wars you can fight a full-scale galactic war with only three million men.

Far as I can tell that's the biggest divide in EU authors is how massive is a massive war in Star Wars. The population of the Star Wars Galaxy is set at 100 quadrillian beings. The largest loss of life ever was in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion in which 365 trillion died. Which I think is like .3% or something like that and about 1/3rd the Galaxy was taken over. Personally I think the 365 trillion dead number is too small but whatever.

Then there's the Clone Wars books' arguing that 200,000 units means 200,000 men where other authors state that a unit is akin to a 'legion' of Storm Troopers which is about 5,000 men. So the Coruscant, Kiamo, and Wayland Cloning Tanks' one million units is actually 5,000,000,000,000 men. Which is much more realistic.

Its just hard to imagine huge numbers in space. Like Coruscant's population has been estimated at 1 trillion and other planet wide cities on other worlds in the hundreds of billions. I think that's too low of an estimated population but if an author says 800 trillion people live on Coruscant people say that's unrealistic even though that would be a good guess.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:31 am

Star wars forums is thatta way

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:31 am

First off for star wars, wrong forum.
Second, none of the numbers ever match, just count it as if someone sends an army or fleet or task force is roughly equal to others unless stated and if so stated then go by the fraction sent with it such as "we were out numbered 2 to 1" and so on as this will help ease the pains the come from trying to understand star wars number games.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:05 am

I was pointing out another example with numbers used to capture worlds.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:01 pm

Okay guys, if you're interested in debating Star Wars, take it to the 'Other Sci-Fi' section. I know threads going off topic here is a running joke, but come on!

They have average warp drive as enemy ships are just as fast.

I was under the impresion that Starfleet had some of the fastest ship in the quadrant? Justifying the ridiculous designs.

There weapons are ruffly the same power.

And yet, Federation ships which are lightly armed can still take on heavily armed ships of other races.
So I'd say that the Federation must have some lead in this area.

Armor is a joke mostly.

Agreed.

Not really enough to justify us having an easy advantage because of it.

And yet, Federation ships which are lightly armed can still take on heavily armed ships of other races.
They certainly don't win through superior stratedy, so there must be some tech advantage.

It is not pointless to judge them against in universe stuff. It is pointless to judhe them against OUR military standards though as they are not in universe.

Actually, they are in-universe.
Its called 'Earth's twenty-first century'. I think its safe to say that Starfleets competance went way downhill from their 'ancient' anscestors.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:06 pm

I would think targeting has something to do with it, if starfleet sensors are as good as they make them out to be then by all means. I'm always hearing them talk about how they can hit such small spots on a ship with ease as great range yet the bad guys have trouble hitting anything and their shots seem almost wishful thinking.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:09 pm

Being able to hit a specific point is useless if you can't get through their shields.
And keep in mind that these superb shots would be in perfect conditions. EG: no one else shooting at you, making evasive maneuvers, etc.

And other races don't seem too much worse than the Federation.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:45 pm

There is supposedly something to the fact that phasers are superior to the disruptors used by many races (esp. Klingons and Romulans,) so I agree with Rochey there. However, I also believe that, discounting damage to control systems, etc., 24th century targeting and fire-control systems are independent/unaffected by maneuvering/movement of the platform.

Heck, we've got fire-and-forget today - wouldn't a 24th century computer be able to handle that?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:47 pm

We have fire and forget with missile systems.
I see no way you could have a homing phaser.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:01 pm

Rochey wrote:We have fire and forget with missile systems.
I see no way you could have a homing phaser.

The might not even have homing torpedoes. I hope I'm wrong, but the only time I remember a torpedo explicitly homing on its target on its own was in ST6, and that took special modifications courtesy of Spock and McCoy. I hope that was just modifications to an existing tracking system, but does anyone have confirmation of on-board torpedo guidance systems?

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:04 pm

In First Contact, that last quantum torpedo definitely changes direction to hit the sphere.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:06 pm

Oh god, don't tell me thats the reason that quantom torpedoes are so good...

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:08 pm

No, thats just one of the reasons that they are so good. QT's are fire and forget!

Blackstar the Chakat · Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:09 pm

Rochey wrote:Oh god, don't tell me thats the reason that quantom torpedoes are so good...

Okay, we won't tell you. As long as you don't ask.