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me,myself and I wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:Sorry, missed this.

Tsukiyumi wrote:Was the FC battle before or after the Breen attack?

That I don't know.

First Contact is generally considered 2373 isn't it? That's when the War started. In face, I recall reading somewhere (I don't remember where, maybe the old Star Trek Magazine) that there's a uniform discrepancy between FC and DS9 The gray and black uniforms are shown in DS9, before (according to stardates and such) they show up in DS9, which is around the start of the war.

Can't remember the episode - I was flicking through episodes when I heard the line, but at somepoint before the war started Sisko was saying that between the recent Borg Invasion, and the Klingon war, Starfleet was stretched thin and would struggle to withstand a Dominion attack. I think it was either the episode where they decide to mine the wormhole, or the earlier episode where they try and close the wormhole altogether. In anycase, it seems the FC battle was indeed before or about the beginning of the war.

I'll go dig out the line when my pc isn't busy playing a DVD.

Mikey wrote:If the 2nd Fleet was committed to the defense of Sol, then WTF happened to it? The breen ships reached Earth unmolested. Sure, they got their icy asses handed to them once they were there - but letting an enemy thorugh to its target and relying on its impotence is hardly a decent defense strategy.

Did they reach Earth unmolested? More likely the Breen Fleet made it to Sol without much trouble. I'd guess thinking that they'd have the same luck as the Borg. Sad for them the whole 2nd fleet was there to greet them.

Deepcrush wrote:Did they reach Earth unmolested? More likely the Breen Fleet made it to Sol without much trouble.

The same thing, really. It still begs the question of what the hell that 2nd Fleet was doing if they were tasked with defending Earth.

Maybe the 2nd fleet was there to protect the Core Worlds, not just Sol. They could have been caught out of position.

Just so you know Deep, Starbase 74 wasn't in orbit of Earth, it was in orbit of Tarsis III.

Right, well what the hell is that big Starbase in orbit of earth? Same type as 74 right?

Are you thinking of Spacedock?

If I may go back a bit regarding the Breen's possession of a cloaking device, something just occured to me. What if the Breen did posess cloaking technology, but it was very poor? Perhaps the cloak only holds up over long distances, whereas a ship nearby could see through it? That would explain how the Breen reached Earth without being confronted, how the Breen were reffered to as using cloaks in the quote Seafort posted, and how we've never actualy seen a Breen cloak in the field.

So it would be more akin to a sensor jammer that only works well at long range?

Right, well what the hell is that big Starbase in orbit of earth? Same type as 74 right?

That would be Spacedock. It's big, but not as big as 74. 74 is basically and upscaled version designed for the Galaxy as opposed to the Constitution.

Deepcrush wrote:Maybe the 2nd fleet was there to protect the Core Worlds, not just Sol. They could have been caught out of position.

Certainly possible, especially if

Rochey wrote:What if the Breen did posess cloaking technology, but it was very poor? Perhaps the cloak only holds up over long distances, whereas a ship nearby could see through it? That would explain how the Breen reached Earth without being confronted, how the Breen were reffered to as using cloaks in the quote Seafort posted, and how we've never actualy seen a Breen cloak in the field.

Still, reaching as far as to say its a "Cloaking Device" seems silly. It would fit better that they have some sort of "Stealth" technology.

I'd go for cloaking technology. Any fleet on its way to attack Earth would have been detected surely. Regardless of wether it reached Earth unmolested, or had to fight its way through, I can't believe that Sisko wouldn't have heard about it until after the event. The Breen going on the offensive against the Federation is a big event in its self, but attacking Earth?

Rochey wrote:Are you thinking of Spacedock?

If I may go back a bit regarding the Breen's possession of a cloaking device, something just occured to me. What if the Breen did posess cloaking technology, but it was very poor? Perhaps the cloak only holds up over long distances, whereas a ship nearby could see through it? That would explain how the Breen reached Earth without being confronted, how the Breen were reffered to as using cloaks in the quote Seafort posted, and how we've never actualy seen a Breen cloak in the field.

That would still be a HUGE technological advantage. Even if at short range it didn't work the ability to go unseen to long range sensors would be a massive advantage.

I'd go for cloaking technology. Any fleet on its way to attack Earth would have been detected surely.

The problem is that we don't know if they were undetected or not. Their fleet was shredded and both sides noted the heavy losses for little to no gain. I a whole fleet of aircraft raced from London to Berlin, would it shock anyone that a single one survived to drop its bombs? Were those bombers cloaked at the time? No, they weren't. There were simply so many of them that the defenses couldn't get them all.

The attack on Earth fits the same bill. The 2nd fleet may have destroyed 99% of the Breen fleet. One ship gets through and launches a few torps at SF-HQ before being fried. A far more likely story then the "They have cloaks they can only use once per season" plan.

kostmayer wrote:Regardless of wether it reached Earth unmolested, or had to fight its way through, I can't believe that Sisko wouldn't have heard about it until after the event. The Breen going on the offensive against the Federation is a big event in its self, but attacking Earth?

Bajor and Earth have some distance between them. Comms may take some time to run back and forth. SF's first job is to deal with the Breen, file the report later. The most important part of the whole operation was that someone else was in the war and they announced it by attacking a place even the Klingons are afraid of. They were hoping for a grand entry and they got one. It just didn't work out like they had hoped.

stitch626 wrote:So it would be more akin to a sensor jammer that only works well at long range?

Aye. It would mask the ship from long-range scanners, but probably wouldn't help it in close range encounters.

Deepcrush wrote:Still, reaching as far as to say its a "Cloaking Device" seems silly. It would fit better that they have some sort of "Stealth" technology.

Technicaly a cloaking device is stealth technology. It's possible that "cloak" may simply have become synonomous with "stealth" in the TNG+ era.

Tyyr wrote: That would still be a HUGE technological advantage. Even if at short range it didn't work the ability to go unseen to long range sensors would be a massive advantage.

Aye, it would explain how the Breen managed to slip through UFP space without being noticed until they came into close proximity to their target. An excellent advantage, but still inferior to Romulan or Klingon cloaks.

Hmm, I wonder if the Federation would be prohibited from that little morsel like they willingly shot themselves in the foot with the "no cloaks" thing.