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GrahamKennedy wrote:It could be, but I tend to doubt it. For one, the Connies had only been recently refitted from TOS to TMP standard. They may well be technically 20 years old, but they were essentially brand new ships as of TMP, so in reality they were much younger than their real age.

Secondly, Connies remained front line units for nearly another decade after ST II.

And "looking for a lifeless planet" doesn't really seem to be something the best ships would be assigned to do, somehow.

I like to think there were Mirandas around in TOS, styled like the TOS Enterprise, and they were refitted when the Connies were. Pure speculation, I know.

When it comes to firepower and what not I tend to somewhat go with what you guys have put on the specs pages. At least some thought was put into 'em.

With that being said I think the Miranda is slightly less powerful than the Connie, but as with any piece of military equipment it's the operator and not the equipment that eventually wins the day. And Khan was wanting to punish Kirk, therefore attempted to drag it out a little more than he should have. But they were dealing with a madman.

The only thing I've read about the Mirandas besides the stuff we've seen on the the shows was the USS Bombay in the ST Vanguard books. A good read for the TOS era I might add and great pics on the front of the books.

Captain Seafort wrote:

GrahamKennedy wrote:The refit Ent has phaser emitters above the shuttle bay.

She had them pre-refit as well, or at least the Defiant did - they were used in IAMD.

And very effectively too.

Capt. Jethro wrote:The only thing I've read about the Mirandas besides the stuff we've seen on the the shows was the USS Bombay in the ST Vanguard books. A good read for the TOS era I might add and great pics on the front of the books.

I enjoyed the Vanguard series as well...one had a nice spotlight on Clark Terrell. A Memory Beta article on the USS Bombay with a pic of a TOS-style Miranda (sans rollbar) can be found here.

Would the TOS Miranda have had a rollbar? If so, how would it have looked?

I've always assumed it had the rollbar, personaly.

I guess I saw the rollbar as a TMP refit addition...

steamrunner wrote:I enjoyed the Vanguard series as well...one had a nice spotlight on Clark Terrell. A Memory Beta article on the USS Bombay with a pic of a TOS-style Miranda (sans rollbar) can be found here.

Would the TOS Miranda have had a rollbar? If so, how would it have looked?

This site has a TOS Miranda with a roll bar. However if that's not the case then I would assume the TOS Miranda's torpedo system is just like the TOS Connie.

Again, assuming that there WAS a TOS Mirana class lurking about someplace. Which personally I'm disinclined to believe. If somebody can PROVE otherwise, it strikes me that the Miranda class was designed to be the nest generation of Starship to replace/supplement the aging Connie class

Mark wrote:Again, assuming that there WAS a TOS Mirana class lurking about someplace. Which personally I'm disinclined to believe. If somebody can PROVE otherwise, it strikes me that the Miranda class was designed to be the nest generation of Starship to replace/supplement the aging Connie class

Heartily seconded. If the Miranda were as old as the Connie, then why are they still around in huge numbers for the Dominion War when the latter isn't. Sure the fact that it's a more compact design means it can handle stress better, and would have a longer hull life all other things being equal, but given the numbers we see there should be at least enough Connies around to be noticeable.

Any refit Connies, though, wouldn't be TOS age - the "refit" involved significant structural changes and a huge increase in size, making more akin to being a brand new spaceframe.

I agree.

I have mixed feelings about a pre and post refit Miranda. I just don't like the idea that like some fan productions would like to think that the whole TOS fleet was refitted like that. While I can believe that a single class or two can do this, not the whole fleet.

I like to take a page from Star Fleet Command and imagine that the Miranda was a kind of "new light cruiser" which was produced around the time the other ships were being refitted.

Especially with the completely different design of the Miranda. Makes more sense to upgrade one successful design than every design they have. Was Excelsior REALLY the first new design of Starfleet in a quarter century?

I agree with you in general principle; but the commonality of elements between the Miranda and the refit Connie leads one to think that the results of refit R&D could have been easily applied to both.

Mikey wrote:I agree with you in general principle; but the commonality of elements between the Miranda and the refit Connie leads one to think that the results of refit R&D could have been easily applied to both.

Or, more likely I think, new technology that was applied successfully to to Mirandas was used to refit the Consitutions (or vice versa). There are a few RL analogues to this - the refitted QEs and Renown received 4.5" mountings based on those fitted to Ark Royal, and the Pearl Harbour battleships received the same 5"/38 twin mountings as the rest of the fleet. There are even examples of things going the other way - the 90mm AA guns designed for the refitted Cavours and Dulios were also used for the Littorios, and the Illustrious-class got same 4.5" mountings of the RN refits.

Mikey wrote:Any refit Connies, though, wouldn't be TOS age - the "refit" involved significant structural changes and a huge increase in size, making more akin to being a brand new spaceframe.

Nonetheless, the ships' basic hulls must have been retained, or they wouldn't have been considered refits. Moreover, if this is the case then where are the Connies in the TNG-era? Since they're missing while the Mirandas are present it makes more sense that the Mirandas are newer ships.