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just don't be like me (no money means am stuck with grainy youtube with all the graphic splendour of porridge lol)

Deepcrush wrote:The D'D was built as a battleship and as such has weapon ports all over the place. Just like UFP ships, the D'D field of fire is impressive. I'd be shocked if they couldn't fire on an enemy at just about every angle of the ship. The ability to manuver would have been only of secondary concern.

It wasn't so much the ability to bring weapons to bear, more the ability to avoid being swarmed. The Defiant is both quick at impulse speeds, and manouverable to dodge at least some enemy fire. In an 8 to 1 battle it would (IMO) be better able to avoid being attacked by all 8 ships at once. A Romulan Warbird could more easily be swamped by all ships at once.

During the battle in The Die is Cast, the Romulan Warbirds were surrounded to such a degree that they opted to stay and fight rather then attempt to escape (I still find it hard to believe that they couldn't have jumped to warp and escaped at the first sign of the Dominion fleet, though they may have been concerned with being overtaken at warp and cut off). The Defiant managed to uncloak right in the centre of the battle, locate Odo and Garak, and then escape. Though I grant the Defiant may not have been a high priority target for the Dominion ships.

especially as the founders may not have wanted odo hurt or ''captured''

I don't know, they attacked the Runabout, although the 'do not attack' order may not have filtered through to all the ships at that time.

They did attack the Runabout but there is the chance that they didn't plan on destroying it. One of those bugs should have blown the Runabout to little bits if they wanted to.

It wasn't so much the ability to bring weapons to bear, more the ability to avoid being swarmed. The Defiant is both quick at impulse speeds, and manouverable to dodge at least some enemy fire. In an 8 to 1 battle it would (IMO) be better able to avoid being attacked by all 8 ships at once. A Romulan Warbird could more easily be swamped by all ships at once.

Its a shame that Romulan shields suck as bad as they do. Could have lasted a good bit longer and dealt out a lot more hurt if their shields weren't falling apart after a few hits from what counts as a scout! Every shot from a D'D should have taken down a Bug.

Deepcrush wrote:Every shot from a D'D should have taken down a Bug.

I don't know about that, the Odyssey hit a bug, I think it was the same one, a few time and did not take it out.

m52nickerson wrote:I don't know about that, the Odyssey hit a bug, I think it was the same one, a few time and did not take it out.

And the Defiant frequently one-shotted bugs. It's also worth noting that Warbirds' weapons are considerably more powerful than those of a GCS, going by the way the E-D got smacked around in "Tin Man".

Captain Seafort wrote:

m52nickerson wrote:I don't know about that, the Odyssey hit a bug, I think it was the same one, a few time and did not take it out.

And the Defiant frequently one-shotted bugs...

In TDiC, the Defiant tore through four of them before escaping. I hadn't remembered that bit until I watched it again.

m52nickerson wrote:

Deepcrush wrote:Every shot from a D'D should have taken down a Bug.

I don't know about that, the Odyssey hit a bug, I think it was the same one, a few time and did not take it out.

Not sure you can count that, back then the bugs were invulnerable and could fire through shields. Later on a Runabout could take out a bug in one shot.

I love the bit where the Defiant holds fire till at point blank range, then blasts one ship and flies through a second one.

The Odessey is a pre-DW GCS which by all means of Trek was a piece of shit. The D'D was spoken of as a very powerful ship. Three BoPs and the E-D were thought of as a speed bump vs a pair of D'Ds dispite the fact that the D'Ds were flanked.

The Odessey also may have been trying to avoid destroying the Bugs. Seeing how the bugs could fire past the GCS shields and never took them out the plan could have been the same. The GCS wasn't destroyed until the battle was over and the Bug rammed the GCS.

kostmayer wrote: Not sure you can count that, back then the bugs were invulnerable and could fire through shields. Later on a Runabout could take out a bug in one shot.

I love the bit where the Defiant holds fire till at point blank range, then blasts one ship and flies through a second one.

True, on of those time were the enemy starts very powerful, but ends up no more then cannon fodder.

I think, in the case of the Dominion, that we have a reasonable explanation for that. Their technology didn't seem all that powerful; it was the unique properties of the weapons that made them so formidable. With the captured bug, they negated the polaron weapons' advantage, and may well have found a way to better effect their shields as well.

We actually have a good handle on Defiant's capability against Bugs. In Field of Fire, they celebrated the fact that they had taken on six Attack Ships single handed, and destroyed them all - with the helmsman being lauded for making the difference.

So Defiant can take on 6 to 1 odds, though this seems to be really pushing it given how delighted they all were by the outcome.

Aye, presumably that figure's a bit of a high end. I'd go with a 4:1 ratio to be conservative.

the uss defiant can, but we are not taking into account the veteran/hero crew, and so the ratio may be different for the other defiant class vessels out there