www.ditl.org

Other then the simulation,

Seafort has disproven that just now.

only logic.

No, logic suggests that they cannot control this effect.

After all, what good would the device be in terraforming a planet if it simply "painted" the surface of a dead rock with tons of craters. That would make it harder to control the end environment which seemed to be a large part of the device's purpose.

Tell me, do you know what terraforming means? If so, then you should have the answer to that question quite quickly.

What question?

Tell me, are you going blind?

Blackstar, should we take your lack of rebuttal with regards to the Borg portion of this debate as a concession?

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:funny, I don't remeber a planet being involved in the creation of the Genisis planet. Also The simulation indicates that it was capable of(or intended to be capable of at some point) changing the surface of the planet.

Correct - change, not flatten.

Flattening it would be a type of change.

If you want yet more evidence, on top of that of the end-product seen in ST3 (which was formed from the same matrix and is therefore a valid example of a Genesis world), then take a look at Marcus' presentation - plenty of mountains in that simulation.

As seen in the video you provided it turned a moon covered in crators into a planet with water and continants, with no visable crators. While mountains are there, they were trying to create a planet with diverse enviroments and mountins are useful in that capacity. The borg have no need for such diversity and would change the planet into a more efficient enviroment.

What part of prove they can do that do you have trouble understanding?

And I'll assume that's a yes to my other question.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Flattening it would be a type of change.

A type of change you obtuse waste of bandwidth - covering the entire planet with Himalayan mountains would also be a type of change.

If As seen in the video you provided it turned a moon covered in crators into a planet with water and continants, with no visable crators. While mountains are there, they were trying to create a planet with diverse enviroments and mountins are useful in that capacity. The borg have no need for such diversity and would change the planet into a more efficient enviroment.

And do you have any evidence of this sort of fine control over the Genesis effect?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:

Mikey wrote:As an aside, exactly how does levelling a mountain or adding a tree make a planet "more efficient" for the Borg's use?

It takes more energy to cross a mountin range then it does to cross flatlands, and thus be a less efficient terrain to traverse when the other option is available, which it can be thanks to the genisis device.

So you think a species with transporters capable of going right through shields would walk across continents?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Flattening it would be a type of change.

Are you kidding?! For your theory to be correct, flattening would have to be the ONLY type of change possible. Even you can't really believe that this is the case. And did you really never see the surface of the Genesis planet - covered with all kinds of terrain? Or, for that matter, David Marcus' simulation - which had mountains?

Mikey wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:

Mikey wrote:As an aside, exactly how does levelling a mountain or adding a tree make a planet "more efficient" for the Borg's use?

It takes more energy to cross a mountin range then it does to cross flatlands, and thus be a less efficient terrain to traverse when the other option is available, which it can be thanks to the genisis device.

So you think a species with transporters capable of going right through shields would walk across continents?

Transporters waste energy were a more energy efficient method of travel can be used. Otherwise why would they walk at all?

Are you kidding?! For your theory to be correct, flattening would have to be the ONLY type of change possible.

How's that? My theory requires the device to be programed to only create one type of terrain. That doesn't mean that the other changes aren't possible, just that they aren't being used.

And I'll assume that's a yes to my other question.

What question of yours haven't I answered?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Transporters waste energy were a more energy efficient method of travel can be used. Otherwise why would they walk at all?

Words cannot express the stupidity of this comment. Walking a few dozen yards down the corridor of a cube is one thing. Walking thousands of miles across a planet is quite another.

How's that? My theory requires the device to be programed to only create one type of terrain.

Exactly. It requires detailed programming - something you have provided no evidence in support of.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Transporters waste energy were a more energy efficient method of travel can be used. Otherwise why would they walk at all?

So you really think it's more efficient to take days to walk somewhere than to transport there almost instantaeously, do you?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:How's that? My theory requires the device to be programed to only create one type of terrain. That doesn't mean that the other changes aren't possible, just that they aren't being used.

Really? Have we seen the Genesis Device have the ability to be programmed for a particular terrain feature? No, but we HAVE seen it create mountainous and broken terrain.

Mikey wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Transporters waste energy were a more energy efficient method of travel can be used. Otherwise why would they walk at all?

So you really think it's more efficient to take days to walk somewhere than to transport there almost instantaeously, do you?

Well, I was thinking they could take a train

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:

How's that? My theory requires the device to be programed to only create one type of terrain. That doesn't mean that the other changes aren't possible, just that they aren't being used.

Really? Have we seen the Genesis Device have the ability to be programmed for a particular terrain feature? No, but we HAVE seen it create mountainous and broken terrain.

I thought that was the point behind the whole project. To create a planet that you can design.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:I thought that was the point behind the whole project. To create a planet that you can design.

Go back and watch the video. "Genesis is life from lifelessness". There is no mention of it being able to produce customised planets.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:I thought that was the point behind the whole project. To create a planet that you can design.

Go back and watch the video. "Genesis is life from lifelessness". There is no mention of it being able to produce customised planets.

Huh...well I guess not. You'd still think they'd want control over the surface since that has an effect on the enviroment and thus the habitablitiy of the planet, but there is nothing to support that they did achieve that level of control

Well, I was thinking they could take a train

Which would take up both energy and resources, while still taking far longer to reach the destination.

but there is nothing to support that they did achieve that level of control

Concession accepted.

Rochey wrote:

Well, I was thinking they could take a train

Which would take up both energy and resources, while still taking far longer to reach the destination.

but it can be more energy efficient. That's why many countries use trains to travel long distances rather then planes, like the US does.

I always thought the Genesis device had a preprogrammed set of parameters of what was needed to provide life. It would then adjust its effect slightly depending on the mass of the body it was used against, and the conditions of local space. It looked like the device was programmed well before a planet was due to be picked for testing. And it did manage to create a habitable planet out of the Mutara Nebula.

kostmayer wrote:I always thought the Genesis device had a preprogrammed set of parameters of what was needed to provide life. It would then adjust its effect slightly depending on the mass of the body it was used against, and the conditions of local space. It looked like the device was programmed well before a planet was due to be picked for testing. And it did manage to create a habitable planet out of the Mutara Nebula.

But there is nothing to even hint that the type of terrain could be programmed.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Well, I was thinking they could take a train

You're the one who came up with the nonsensical statement, why are you rolling your eyes?