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Captain Seafort wrote:

Mikey wrote:

Sionnach Glic wrote:Happy Armed Uprising Against The Lawful And Legitimate Government Day!

I can't be sure - in this case, are you the pot or the kettle?

It takes one to know one.

Anyway, to my grumbling English friends - y'all didn't seem to mind so much when Lend-Lease started...

We had more important problems on our plate at the time, and we decided that it was at least a marginal improvement on your previous performance, even if you did turn up late again.

Yeah, you guys would've been just fine without us. I'm sure an intelligent people like the English would've taken very easily to speaking German.

Schweigen Sie!

Mikey wrote:Yeah, you guys would've been just fine without us. I'm sure an intelligent people like the English would've taken very easily to speaking German.

Pfft. They'd have been lucky to get across the Channel even if the RAF and the Navy ignored them, and between Bletchley, the RN/RCN and Canada the Battle of the Atlantic was much less of a close-run thing than Churchill liked to pretend. The only major change in the outcome would have been a far longer war and a Russian-dominated continent. There's no way in hell they could have moved west at the rate they did without Lend-Lease, but there were simply too many of them, and their industrial base was too secure behind the Urals for the Germans to win.

Besides which, you obviously know nothing about this country's collective lack of anything resembling linguistic talent.

It's true, it seems the United Kingdom are linguistically challenged when it comes to anything other than English, and that includes the true English and not the bastardized stars and stripes variety

Take my posts over-literally if you want; but can you honestly say that the outcome of WWII would have been the same without U.S. involvement?

Mikey wrote:Take my posts over-literally if you want; but can you honestly say that the outcome of WWII would have been the same without U.S. involvement?

It depends on what you mean by "outcome". If you mean "the Germans lost", then I certainly can. If you mean "continental Europe divided between Russia and the western allies" then no, as I pointed out above.

I'm sure you guys would've picked up Russian just fine instead.

Tsukiyumi wrote:I'm sure you guys would've picked up Russian just fine instead.

They'd've had no better luck than the Germans getting across the Channel. Don't underestimate the difficulty of getting an army across those 22 miles - especially today. It took William months to organise an execute his invasion, even with an army that required no external support once it was across, and nobody's managed it since.

In an interesting turn of events, by "outcome" I mean "outcome." Germany would still have lost, but after a much longer time frame; at far greater cost to the Allies; and with far greater gains than what it was left as it was. To focus on England, there would have been a lot more dead English people, and the U.K. would not have been the voice of Europe in subsequent international politics.

I thought the war of independence was nothing more than political in-fighting?

Mikey wrote:In an interesting turn of events, by "outcome" I mean "outcome."

Like I said, define "outcome" - general or specific. If you're talking about the most important outcome, beating the Germans, then there would have been no difference whatsoever - they'd still have lost.

Germany would still have lost, but after a much longer time frame; at far greater cost to the Allies

There's a dreadful echo round here, because I'm pretty sure I said that not so long ago.

with far greater gains than what it was left as it was.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Who or what are you talking about - Germany, the allies in general, or the Russians in particular?

To focus on England, there would have been a lot more dead English people

True, although the term "England", in the context of international politics, is meaningless.

the U.K. would not have been the voice of Europe in subsequent international politics.

Mainly because there wouldn't have been a "Europe" in the sense we understand it, any more than Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, or any other country east of the curtain had more than nominal independence.

We all know that England is merely one component of the U.K. However, outside of the Isles it's shorthand to speak of it as the dominant voice in the U.K., if not an equivalent term.

Well despite having to work, this wasn't a bad 4th. Had some take out BBQ courtesy of the in-laws, and once it got dark I climbed up on the roof with my burger and hotdog to watch the fireworks. The building is 3 stories tall, so I was above the tree line and could see any firework launched for at least a good ten miles in any direction. I figure without even trying I was seeing about 2-3 dozen fireworks going off at any given moment.

Happy 4th everyone.

I think Lighthawk is officially the only man who his in-laws actually like.

Mine like me.