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I dont think they consider the Federation weak so much as to tame.

Yeah, I think weak went out the window after being defeated in battle over and over and over...

Kirk showed that the Federation wasn't weak. 8)

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Kirk showed that the Federation wasn't weak. 8)

Over and over and...

stitch626 wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Kirk showed that the Federation wasn't weak. 8)

Over and over and...

Old joke, but a goody.

There was no word in Klingonese for 'surrender with honor'-before Kirk came along.

The number 150 Negh'Var is interesting. Its very high. And that is with only a 1500 fleet. Where as the Klingon fleet can easalie number betwen 5000 to 10000 ships. That would mean that Klingons should have betwen 500-1000 Negh'Vars. Only the Romulans had huge numbers of big ships, where as Sf only builed 6+2+x of its biggest ships. Where the 60/30/10 ratio sounds greate, when you put it into perspective, you realize that 10%for the Negh'Var is just to high.

First let me say that the 10% isn't really that far off. Remember that for a time the vorcha was the big ship of the fleet. Yet the KDF had a higher ratio then 10% of them in the fleet. The KDF will also need the ability to go head to head with the UFPs new and more advanced ships. The current starfleet would eat apart the current KDF with ease. The standard light cruiser of SF (Excelsior) can be upgraded into a heavy cruiser now. That would mean that the SF could in a short while turn out 250 new heavy cruisers and not even have to build any new to do so. The NCS & GCS were heavy cruisers of their time but are now under a massive upgrade run. Again, these ships will be able to mark either the heavy cruiser or even battleship slots in the near future. Add on the Prommie's, Akiras and Defiants... You now have a fleet built mostly of heavy cruisers and now the chance to and in a large number of battleships. The avg Klingon ship is no longer a match for the avg SF ship. The KDF cannot afford to faulter on this. They need to build or they will fall to that second rate power that was talked about earlier. I don't think anyone wants to see the KE turn into another CU where they have to fight everyone to get what they need to survive.

I can't remember the episode that well, so I can't really comment on it.
I will however point out that the Klingon mentality would be completely against giving up their empire to join the "weak" UFP.

I dont think they consider the Federation weak so much as to tame.

I don't think anyone can call the UFP weak or tame anymore. They've shown that lately they are the super power of the AQ. The combined RSE and KE couldn't beat them now. Also, what if the KE doesn't join because they have too? But, because they want to? Think of the "glory" involved in "protecting" the whole AQ. I bet a lot of Klingons could be won over by such a deal. It would give them access to wars and battles all across the AQ and BQ. Every Klingon could have his/her fill of war if they want. And, if they are part of the UFP then that aggression could be put to some very good use.

And, once again, Martok's influence will be at work. It certainly might not come to pass in his lifetime, but the idea of treating with the Federation will be part of his legacy.

I fully agree. It will be Martok's leadership and the loyalty of his followers that carry on after him that brings the KE into the UFP.

If and when the Klingons do join you can bet the Romulans wont be happy...

I think that if the Klingons join then the Romulans wouldn't be far behind. The balance of power would now be so heavly in favor of the UFP that if would be just a matter of time before the RSE made someone mad. At which point the combined fleets of the UFP + the KDF come racing across the border. 20,000 strong and in a very nasty mood...

In truth the RSE would need to join to stay in line. They wouldn't be able to play the 3 way power balance anymore. It would end up being the RSE vs the whole AQ.

That would be my time to shine! That is after I build of a defense network for every UFP world and open about a dozen new shipyards and push the SF to the 10,000 ship mark. Just minor details is all...

The massive Klingon pressence in the Federation may make them more aggressive...

No, it wouldn't. Thats not how the RSE acts on danger. They try to control others without having to fight. They wouldn't risk bringing the anger of the SF/KDF down on themselves. They know that they couldn't hope to win. And with the Klingons being in the fight there isn't any hope of getting to the peace table very quickly. No, in the end the RSE could join the UFP like the KE did or just close their borders again and stay out of the way. Those are the only choices they have.

Sorry I ment might make the Federation more aggressive.

Well I have thought about that, but its just as possible that the UFP would calm the KDF down. Remember that the KDF by this time will be used to working along side the UFP. They may not be as rash to war as the KE pre-dominion war. The KE won't admit it but right now they know as well as everyone that times are changing. If they want to survive then they need to change with them. I think the best thing for them would be to return to how they were during TOS. We've seen Klingons from this time period more then able to control their want for war and also very able to work with others.

ST VI showed they are able to work with the Federation if need be.