www.ditl.org

It would be partially democratic in the sense that the council would vote for the person they wanted but the difference is that the people voting know what they are talking about for a change.

That WOULD be a refreshing change...

I hate HATE the welfare state. I hate the fact that I am forced to support people I dont want to. I hate the fact that my tax is 4 times what it needs to be. I'm always shocked at how few liberatarians there are and that we are generally looked down apon as selfish. It doesnt mean being selfish it means having the right to choose who I support and who I don't.

Welfare is a joke! I understand if someone needs help then fine but if you aren't working your ass off and giving your best everyday to break free of that need for help then I could give a rat's a** about you and your family. Farmers live their whole lives by scratching by pennies on the dollar and praying at night that they can feed their kids but if you're the right skin color in the right city of the right country then you don't have to do spit. (This is not a race thing, class and backround are also factors, though often race becomes involved. Every race and religion on earth has at one point or another been hurt by someone else) I just feel its stupid to keep on screwing around with it all as if every person who feels wronged has to be treated like they are the only person on earth to have a rough day. I have never minded sharing my plate with someone next to me but if you want to share my table then you need to earn it.

I agree. I am a left of center by inborn nature, but Isee - especially in the urban centers near where I live, poeple living off of handouts, everything provided - and here I am, with my wife and I working our butts off, with no help from anyone. It feels at times that we are being punished for being conscientious and hard-working members of society, and others are being rewarded for being useless.

Around here, too, a hot issue is that of illegal immigration. It is rampant in the town in which my wife works - and grew up - and these poeple get free education, medical services, adult ed, assistance, etc. Many here on the side of these illegal immigrants spin it as a racial, anti-hispanic issue, but it really isn't at the core. During a nationwide rally in support of illegal immigrants, originated in California of course, one illegal immigrant voiced a complaint about supposed unfair treatment, sayin, "We're not criminals." Well, in fact, you are - that's what the first word in "illegal immigrant" means. If I'm going to pay due to someone else breaking the law of my land, it had damn well better be to catch them and to make them stop doing it.

Agreed, i concur emphatically.
But please no more mental images of your butt

I assure you, your mental images can be no worse than the reality.

Just a nice little factoid for you guys: the US spends over $400 BILLION a year on welfare alone. More than double what we spend on health-care aid, and a considerable amount more than our military budget. As a good contrast, NASA's current budget is $17.3 billion, more than twenty times less. From the year 1958 to 2007, NASA has recieved a total of $419 billion, a little more than we spend on welfare in one year.

Priorities?

The funny thing is is that most polls show that people dont support welfare. Or at most limited welfare to those whp really need it. Yet we still have it... another wonderful example of democracy failing.

Tsukiyumi wrote:Just a nice little factoid for you guys: the US spends over $400 BILLION a year on welfare alone. More than double what we spend on health-care aid, and a considerable amount more than our military budget. As a good contrast, NASA's current budget is $17.3 billion, more than twenty times less. From the year 1958 to 2007, NASA has recieved a total of $419 billion, a little more than we spend on welfare in one year.

Priorities?

I'd put welfare above a completely reduntant and currently non-rewarding space program any day of the week. We can start exploring space, and going to the moon, when we need to or it will be rewarding. Doing it now is absolutely worthless and tells us nothing. Especially going to the moon. Dumbest "morale" thing I've ever seen - wasting so much money to beat the Soviets at something that just isn't worth it.

The problem with welfare is that there are genuinely people who are looking for jobs and would do anything to have one - when my father was made redundant about 6 years ago, he couldn't get another job - he was out of work for about a year. This was because at the time he was about 54 and people didn't like to employ older people. He eventually found a job but without any welfare for a whole year I dread to think what'd have happened. It's impossible for a government to single out who wants to work and who pretends to want to work - who to give welfare to.

Your father is 54 he should have had more than enough savings to survive a year or even 5 with out a job. It is not societies problem that people cant plan for the future.

Teaos wrote:Your father is 54 he should have had more than enough savings to survive a year or even 5 with out a job. It is not societies problem that people cant plan for the future.

You don't even deserve a response for what you just said - it's people like you that are the outspoken majority who seem make up their mind on any matter in two seconds - you know nothing of my father's, or family's situation and never will. Well done, with that singular comment of prejudice you've lost nearly all respect I've had for you.

Everyone should be given a chance, for sure. My ex made a few mistakes (rather large ones) following her then-husband. Now she's almost unemployable, practically no one would even rent her an apartment, and she could barely get any aid, even though she was trying to raise two small children by herself.

On the flip-side, I live in a craphole of an apartment complex where the majority of the residents are ungrateful welfare recipients who don't go to work, and supplement their government handouts by selling drugs, and/or pirated DVD's. They're driving brand-new SUV's with fancy rims and expensive sound systems, while I drive a Saturn I bought from my aunt, and my ex recently barely scraped up enough to buy a 1994 Ford truck.

The welfare system needs serious reform, at least.

BTW, I agree about wasting money on space missions with questionable scientific or social value; I was trying to point out the disparity in terms of funding. If NASA (under proper management) was given even $100 billion for one year, we could build a massive fleet of space probes and go to nearly every point of interest in the solar system.

Tsukiyumi wrote: BTW, I agree about wasting money on space missions with questionable scientific or social value; I was trying to point out the disparity in terms of funding. If NASA (under proper management) was given even $100 billion for one year, we could build a massive fleet of space probes and go to nearly every point of interest in the solar system.

Indeed that's true - but the actual point of going there?

Oh, and Thorin, my mom is in a similar situation right now. Even with years of accounting/bookkeeping experience, and medical billing training, she can't find a job that can pay bills, other than driving pizza around. Age discrimination is a real problem, not an imagined one. That's why I have to help her as much as I can. She didn't "save up" because we had a number of major issues in the 80's and 90's that drained our resources. This is why I didn't get to go to college, and realizing that I couldn't, I gave up on school to concentrate on my talents.