Quality vs Quantity

[Sionnach Glic]

Perhaps it was some sort of fire control center. Perhaps the other commanders wouldn't have seen the point in all concentrating their fire. Perhaps it just made the ship go up a few minutes earlier than it otherwise would.

There is no evidence borg ships could possibly survive an entire fleet firing at its inside. Ergo, Picard must have ordered to fire on that location for some particular reason.

[Mikey]

Picard must have ordered to fire on that location for some particular reason.

My point exactly!

There is no evidence borg ships could possibly survive an entire fleet firing at its inside.

And, more germane to this discussion, there is no evidence that until Picard's order was carried out, the Borg cube was in any danger of NOT completing its mission.

[Sionnach Glic]

My point exactly!

There is still no evidence that they would not have achieved similar results by firing on another part of the cube. In fact, there is more evidence for it than against.

As I said, its possible that Picard was ordering the fleet to fire on some sort of fire-control centre, preventing the cube from firing back and causing more casualties.

Or maybe he did hit something volitile. Blowing the cube up quicker than it would otherwise have done. Preventing the cube from causing more casualties.

Or maybe he was just trying to get those idiots on the other ships to do something smart and concentrate their fire on one location.

And, more germane to this discussion, there is no evidence that until Picard's order was carried out, the Borg cube was in any danger of NOT completing its mission.

*sigh*

1) Cube's shields were down. Cannon.

2) Fleet was attacking and causing damage. Cannon.

3) Picard orders fleet to concentrate fire. Cannon.

4) Fleet's coordinated fire tears through hull of cube. Cannon.

5) Cube explodes in a disapointing explosion. Cannon.

Now, we can gather several things from this.

1) The cube was taking damage.

2) The concentrated fire from the fleet is powerfull enough to tear a hole about two hundred metres wide and an unkown number deep.

3) The fleet was able to fire inside the cube.

Now, tell me how the fleet concentrating its fire on a diferent part of the cube and lobbing a few photon torpedos in there wouldn't have achieved the same results.

[Teaos]

1) Cube can with stand MASSIVE dmage and still keep fighting. Canon.

2) Borg cube was still destroying ships. Canon.

3) Until the arrival of Picard things weren't going to great. Canon.

4) Cube was mere minute from Earth. Canon.

[Mikey]

You beat me to the punch, Teaos.

All that you say is logical, Rochey; the fact remains, however, that before the E-E arrived, the cube was still destroying Fed ships at will, and still advancing on mission.

[Sionnach Glic]

1) Cube can with stand MASSIVE dmage and still keep fighting. Canon.

Massive external damage. All this shows is that the 'tactics' of the Federation ships would have acomplished nothing. Picard saved the day by ordering the fleet to concentrate its fire, thus breaching the hull of the cube and destroying it form the inside out.

2) Borg cube was still destroying ships. Canon.

So? It is unlikely it could have destroyed the entire fleet if the Federation concentrated its fire. If they hadn't, they would have lost the battle. I don't dispute that.

3) Until the arrival of Picard things weren't going to great. Canon.

Because whoever had been leading the fleet until then was an idiot.
We saw that concentrated fire could tear the cube apart, a few photon torps' into the inside would have torn the thing apart, wherever they were fired.

4) Cube was mere minute from Earth. Canon.

I know, and its likely it would have got there if Picard hadn't thought of something that is standard practice nowadays.

All that you say is logical, Rochey; the fact remains, however, that before the E-E arrived, the cube was still destroying Fed ships at will, and still advancing on mission.

Indeed, I never said it wasn't. What I was saying is that if the the fleet had concentrated its fire, then regardless of wether or not Picard showed up the cube would have been blown to shreds.

[Teaos]

I'll pretty much agree with that. i'm still not sure if the place they hit was vitally important or just random. If it was important consintrated fire wouldnt of helped as much as it did that time.

[Sionnach Glic]

Its very possible there was something important there. However, my point still stands that the cube would have been unable to withstand all those torps going off inside it, even if it was a random location.

[D. Sergez]

Actually this is one thing that bugs me a little about Trek ships; the larger ones don't seem to have too many capabilities that the small ones lack. Compare the Sovereign to the Intrepid... The Sovereign has the exact same systems in every respect, just that they are more powerful or sophisticated versions, or it has more of them. I wish there was some fundamental difference between larger and smaller ships.

What's wrong with that? Compare the 5-inch guns of a WW2 US destroyer with the 16-inch guns of an Iowa class battleship and they're basically the same design, one's simply a bit bigger.

yes bigger is better. yet you need smaller ships as well. hell look at the Romulans. all they had [that is we saw] are large ships and theyre fleet got Hammerd...

I Like the idea of a balanced Fleet... and the bigger the better as far as Raw firepower... Yet we often need smaller faster ships in combat. ones that can draw away enemy so in other terms Fodder.... or you have 1000 ships firing at about 50 large ships...

[Teaos]

As far as we know the only time in Hostory there has been proper fleet action is in the Dominion war.

All other wars were fought with one on one or small groups of ships.

So you can't really blame them for having not deisgned ships for fleet actions.

[Captain Seafort]

As far as we know the only time in Hostory there has been proper fleet action is in the Dominion war.

There was at least one fleet action during the Romulan war - the battle of Cheron. There was the strong implication that the Federation and Klingon fleets were squaring off for the battle of Organia before the locals intervened, and of course there was Wolf 359. Not many, but enough to demonstrate that they do happen.

[Teaos]

When was it mentioned about the Battle of Cheron?

Wolf 359 wasn't really a fleet action. It was just every availableship meeting at a certain poin to stop a really big ship. I class a fleet as something organised with wings and commanders.

[Captain Seafort]

Battle of Cheron at Memory Alpha.

The fleet at Wolf was a somewhat ad hoc force, but it was a fleet nonetheless, commanded by an admiral.

[Sionnach Glic]

Don't forget the battle with the borg cube in Fist Contact. It may have been a fleet of idiots, but it was a fleet nonetheless.

[Monroe]

When was it mentioned about the Battle of Cheron?

Wolf 359 wasn't really a fleet action. It was just every availableship meeting at a certain poin to stop a really big ship. I class a fleet as something organised with wings and commanders.

Modern fleets are organized into squadrons that behave like calvary to encircle and entrap other fleets. Before the Porteguese developed this to use against the muslims fleets basically got as many ships as they could and rammed each other and boarded and fought on each other's deck.

Maybe Star Fleet in their wisdom decided to go back to the ancient fleet models for some battles