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Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:The Borg can revive someone up to 72 hours past what we would consider 'death'.

Option one: Let your assimilatee die, then use nanoprobes to revive them. Continue doing so until sufficient implants have been established to allow and atmospheric shield to be generated.

Option two: Keep your assimilatees alive.

Which do you think is more efficient?

Well, if they're dead then they won't resist the assimilation process. We've seen people fight back, kill multiple drones, and escape on occasion.

But the genesis device can eliminate unnecessary elements, and make the planet more efficient for them to use.

Evidence?

Star Trek II. when we see the video on the genisis torpedo where it transforms the surface of a planet. When it turns a nebula into a planet. Take your pick.

Like I said: "throw more firepower at it". There's no evidence that the weapon was new and excellent evidence that it was an established Borg design - it was the ship used in "Descent".

That's not throwing more firepower at it. That's creating a bomb to carry nanoprobes throughout the system. If they had such a weapon why wouldn't they have used it before?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Well, if they're dead then they won't resist the assimilation process. We've seen people fight back, kill multiple drones, and escape on occasion.

We've seen effective physical resistance once - from Data. Not exactly your bog-standard humanoid.

Star Trek II. when we see the video on the genisis torpedo where it transforms the surface of a planet. When it turns a nebula into a planet. Take your pick.

And where in either of these two events do we see any evidence of elemental transmutation?

That's not throwing more firepower at it. That's creating a bomb to carry nanoprobes throughout the system. If they had such a weapon why wouldn't they have used it before?

Let's see, perhaps it's because they didn't have the modified nanoprobes. The thing is a big bomb - i.e.more firepower. You're not refuting anything - indeed you're reinforcing the point that the most complicated thought process the Borg have is "need bigger bang".

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Well, if they're dead then they won't resist the assimilation process. We've seen people fight back, kill multiple drones, and escape on occasion.

We've seen effective physical resistance once - from Data. Not exactly your bog-standard humanoid.

We've seen people escape several times in Voyager.

And where in either of these two events do we see any evidence of elemental transmutation?

What does that have to do with making a planet more efficient?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:We've seen people escape several times in Voyager.

Details?

What does that have to do with making a planet more efficient?

You, earlier wrote:But the genesis device can eliminate unnecessary elements, and make the planet more efficient for them to use.

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:We've seen people escape several times in Voyager.

Details?

Like when Seven of Nine helped several people escape from the Borg Queen's personal ship.

What does that have to do with making a planet more efficient?

You, earlier wrote:But the genesis device can eliminate unnecessary elements, and make the planet more efficient for them to use.

I didn't mean elements as in table of elements type elements, I meant elements as in items, like uneven terrain like mountains and lakes and rivers in inefficient locations.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:Like when Seven of Nine helped several people escape from the Borg Queen's personal ship.

Ah, so when you said:

We've seen people fight back, kill multiple drones, and escape on occasion.

You actually meant "we've seen a single jailbreak that the Queen knew about all along".

I didn't mean elements as in table of elements type elements, I meant elements as in items, like uneven terrain like mountains and lakes and rivers in inefficient locations.

Then I suggest that you take more care over your grammar in future - when discussing an effect as wide ranging as Genesis (and, indeed, sci-fi in general), it would be helpful if you used the word "element" in reference to the periodic table, rather than general "stuff".

As an aside, exactly how does levelling a mountain or adding a tree make a planet "more efficient" for the Borg's use?

You actually meant "we've seen a single jailbreak that the Queen knew about all along".

One that was orchestrated by an ex-drone with superior strength to a human, as well.

Mikey wrote:As an aside, exactly how does levelling a mountain or adding a tree make a planet "more efficient" for the Borg's use?

It takes more energy to cross a mountin range then it does to cross flatlands, and thus be a less efficient terrain to traverse when the other option is available, which it can be thanks to the genisis device.

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:It takes more energy to cross a mountin range then it does to cross flatlands, and thus be a less efficient terrain to traverse when the other option is available, which it can be thanks to the genisis device.

Genesis doesn't flatten planets - it simply rearranges them. Or did you miss the damn great cliff Kirk and Kruge were fighting on the edge of in ST3?

Blackstar, should we take your lack of rebuttal with regards to the Borg portion of this debate as a concession?

Captain Seafort wrote:

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:It takes more energy to cross a mountin range then it does to cross flatlands, and thus be a less efficient terrain to traverse when the other option is available, which it can be thanks to the genisis device.

Genesis doesn't flatten planets - it simply rearranges them. Or did you miss the damn great cliff Kirk and Kruge were fighting on the edge of in ST3?

funny, I don't remeber a planet being involved in the creation of the Genisis planet. Also The simulation indicates that it was capable of(or intended to be capable of at some point) changing the surface of the planet.

And do you have anything to suggest that it would re-arrange them into a perfectly flat surface, or that its results can be controlled?

And I'll take that as a yes to my previous question.

Rochey wrote:And do you have anything to suggest that it would re-arrange them into a perfectly flat surface, or that its results can be controlled?

Other then the simulation, only logic. After all, what good would the device be in terraforming a planet if it simply "painted" the surface of a dead rock with tons of craters. That would make it harder to control the end environment which seemed to be a large part of the device's purpose.

And I'll take that as a yes to my previous question.

What question?

Blackstar the Chakat wrote:funny, I don't remeber a planet being involved in the creation of the Genisis planet. Also The simulation indicates that it was capable of(or intended to be capable of at some point) changing the surface of the planet.

Correct - change, not flatten. If you want yet more evidence, on top of that of the end-product seen in ST3 (which was formed from the same matrix and is therefore a valid example of a Genesis world), then take a look at Marcus' presentation - plenty of mountains in that simulation.