Our Ship - Armour

[Sionnach Glic]

Yeah, that as well.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I was told such by an american soldier, on leave after a tour in Afghanistan I believe. He told a slightly amusing story of an attack on christmas when him and his fellow soldiers were a tad confused by the Christmas music played on the PA.

Right. And this has what to do with a foreign country with different methods and techniques?

For that matter, what does it have to do with "brainwashing"?

Well, the brainwashing is done, in part at least, with the sound system.

Yeah, yeah, the Black Knight always triumphs, and all that.

what do you mean?

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, the brainwashing is done, in part at least, with the sound system.

So they brainwash people by playing christmas music?
Oh, the horror.

what do you mean?

I take it you've never seen Monthy Python and the Holy Grail?

If not, then allow me to make it clear: I'm mocking you.
The scene in question. You're the Black Knight.

[Aaron]

Well, the brainwashing is done, in part at least, with the sound system.

Now you've completely lost me, I'm not famaliar with many training methods that use a fragging PA system. Am I to beleive that the US Military has a 1984esque propoganda soundloop in the camps, OP's and Forward Operating Bases, or on their Garrisons? I already know the last one is bupkiss, having been on a US Army base.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Well, the brainwashing is done, in part at least, with the sound system.

So they brainwash people by playing christmas music?
Oh, the horror.

Are you being funny? The Christmas music confused the soldiers because it was peace-type stuff rather then the usual "kill the enemy" type crap they get used to listening to in training

Now you've completely lost me, I'm not famaliar with many training methods that use a fragging PA system. Am I to beleive that the US Military has a 1984esque propoganda soundloop

Well, I'm hardly an expert in ancient propaganda techniques so I'm afraid I couldn't answer the second part. But during training scenarios, it is my understanding that they have messages playing that encourage the soldiers to kill the enemy and whatnot.

[Aaron]

[

Well, I'm hardly an expert in ancient propaganda techniques so I'm afraid I couldn't answer the second part. But during training scenarios, it is my understanding that they have messages playing that encourage the soldiers to kill the enemy and whatnot.

Was your friend a member of the army in Soldier by any chance?

In case you didn't pick up on that, no it doesn't happen. That crap would distract you from the objective and you wouldn't hear it over the training grenades and artillery simulators anyways.

[Sionnach Glic]

Are you being funny? The Christmas music confused the soldiers because it was peace-type stuff rather then the usual "kill the enemy" type crap they get used to listening to in training

And do you actualy have proof of this? You'd think news that the US army brainwashed its troops would get around.

[Tsukiyumi]

You'd think that the Marine Corps would be far more likely to use such a technique, but all they use is shouting, push-ups and running a lot.

[Aaron]

And do you actualy have proof of this? You'd think news that the US army brainwashed its troops would get around.

He's confusing brainwashing with conditioning and training. If the troops were actually brainwashed, they'd be virtually goosestepping through Iraq, raping and killing babies and wouldn't know the difference. The amount of dissent and refusal to follow illegal and unethical orders in Iraq/Afghanistan disproves his point.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

[

Well, I'm hardly an expert in ancient propaganda techniques so I'm afraid I couldn't answer the second part. But during training scenarios, it is my understanding that they have messages playing that encourage the soldiers to kill the enemy and whatnot.

Was your friend a member of the army in Soldier by any chance?

To be clear, no. I haven't even heard of that movie/book/other method of entertainment.

In case you didn't pick up on that, no it doesn't happen. That crap would distract you from the objective and you wouldn't hear it over the training grenades and artillery simulators anyways.

Perhaps you won't hear it consciously but that kind of stuff can get embedded in your subconscious.

He's confusing brainwashing with conditioning and training.

What's the difference?

[Aaron]

To be clear, no. I haven't even heard of that movie/book/other method of entertainment.

Soldier.

Perhaps you won't hear it consciously but that kind of stuff can get embedded in your subconscious.

You have no idea the amount of sheer noise there is during military operations. If you did you would not be making this claim.

This is the realm of retarded action movies and shitty Third World militaries, neither of which bear any resemblance to a First World power. Which is what Starfleet is modelled on.

What's the difference?

Brainwashing refers to a process which allows the powers at be to make the troops do what they would never do willingly (*insert horrific warcrimes here*). Conditioning is stuff like using artillery simulators, flashbangs, training grenades and CS gas to get the troops used to distractions and to employ the appropriate reactions in combat. A simple thing like replacing the civvie style paper targets with one of an enemy soldier or metal plates (the fall down kind) is both a conditioning and training aid.

If you want an example of brainwashed troops than look at North Korea.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Perhaps you won't hear it consciously but that kind of stuff can get embedded in your subconscious.

You have no idea the amount of sheer noise there is during military operations. If you did you would not be making this claim.

I'm no expert on military operations, as I prefer to not be involved in anything that requires you to kill people, but I do know a thing or two about psychology. Tell me Kendall when was your last psychology class?

[Aaron]

I'm no expert on military operations, as I prefer to not be involved in anything that requires you to kill people, but I do know a thing or two about psychology. Tell me Kendall when was your last psychology class?

When was yours? The whole point is moot because this simply doesn't happen in the military.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I'm no expert on military operations, as I prefer to not be involved in anything that requires you to kill people, but I do know a thing or two about psychology. Tell me Kendall when was your last psychology class?

When was yours?

About two years ago.

The whole point is moot because this simply doesn't happen in the military.

says the military man.

Crook: I'm not a crook, officer

[Teaos]

Ok it was decided anyway but let me spell it out.

You wanted numbers?

Ok so apparently 15 people voted and about 8 people have debated. Now I tend to take the word of people who bother to debate other people who dont but lets just have a look see at what people want.

Teaos, Rochey, Seafort, Mikey, Kendall, Tsu, Sunny, Judgeking (off the top of my head). Have all either out right voted for battleship or agreed that it is the class that is being built.

That is 8 people. 8 people is more than half of the 15 people who voted.

People against battleship - Blackstar.

Now that is 6 people who have not made clear their thoughts on the matter (And if they can't be arsed posting a message why should they count for as much) Now even if all 6 agreed with you (Statistically unlikely) you still lose the vote.

Its a battleship, move on. I wanted a smaller ship that filled an exploration roll. I got out voted. I've accepted the vote and moved on. It might not be what you want but its what the majority wanted. I'm not going to put every litle thing in a poll. I'm going to expect people to debate a point. If people cant be bothered posting their opinion doesnt get counted.