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They may have equivalent values but they are not the same thing. Acceleration is an effect, gravity is a cause.

In the same way as a microwave oven and a microwave oven do the same thing...

What are you trying to say? Of course a microwave oven will do the same thing as a microwave oven. They are the same thing.

Who says the Inertial Dampeners work like the gravity plates in a Starship?
We know the Feds use mass lightening technology for Warp travel.
Who's to say the Inertial Dampeners don't do the same thing to people and things inside the ship?
Internal Mass lightening devices.
Which means that, in order for the gravity plates to act the same no matter the mass of people, they have to be linked to the fields and be able to go up to 100 or 1000g, depending on the mass lightening necessary for Warp speeds...

Because creating an opposite acceleration to counter the one created by Warp Speeds means that you will crush the humans caught between the two forces...
One force creating an acceleration towards the back of the craft (Warp Speeds) of, say, 1000g, and the other creates an acceleration towards the front of the craft (inertial dampeners) of equal force, 1000g... Instant human mush...

stitch626 wrote:They may have equivalent values but they are not the same thing. Acceleration is an effect, gravity is a cause.

It's completely trivial. N/kg [gravity] = kg*m/s^2/kg = m/s^2 [acceleration]. Acceleration can have the same units as gravitation, they have the same values. It is for all intents and purposes the same in any case involving gravity.

What are you trying to say? Of course a microwave oven will do the same thing as a microwave oven. They are the same thing.

Precisely. Microwave oven = microwave oven.
Acceleration = acceleration.
Gravity = gravity.

Praeothmin wrote:Who says the Inertial Dampeners work like the gravity plates in a Starship?
We know the Feds use mass lightening technology for Warp travel.
Who's to say the Inertial Dampeners don't do the same thing to people and things inside the ship?
Internal Mass lightening devices.
Which means that, in order for the gravity plates to act the same no matter the mass of people, they have to be linked to the fields and be able to go up to 100 or 1000g, depending on the mass lightening necessary for Warp speeds...

Because creating an opposite acceleration to counter the one created by Warp Speeds means that you will crush the humans caught between the two forces...
One force creating an acceleration towards the back of the craft (Warp Speeds) of, say, 1000g, and the other creates an acceleration towards the front of the craft (inertial dampeners) of equal force, 1000g... Instant human mush...

It's impossible to crush humans between two forces. They are vector quantities - opposite directions (specifically your 1000g example) means there is no net force. No human mush.
Regardless of how mass lightening works, unless it reduces the mass to an absolute of "0" - in which case everything is moving at the speed of light - everything is still getting mushed. Inertial dampers must create a counter gravity/acceleration which is increadibly large.

Precisely. Microwave oven = microwave oven.
Acceleration = acceleration.
Gravity = gravity.

So... what are you getting at here.

The inertial dampeners are external, they act on the outside of the vessel to counter the forces that would be formed by high accelerations. The gravity plating is internal and intended to simulate the natural gravitational forces of a Federation planet.

stitch626 wrote:So... what are you getting at here.

He's getting at the fact that the two are effectively identical.

The inertial dampeners are external, they act on the outside of the vessel to counter the forces that would be formed by high accelerations.

They have to act on the entire ship. No point in the hull being fine if the crew are goo.

The gravity plating is internal and intended to simulate the natural gravitational forces of a Federation planet.

It exerts a force on the crew. The dampers also exert a force on the crew.

Acceleration and gravity are indeed identical mathematically. Clearly, they are not the same thing in reality.

They are indeed the same. Why do you think the forces suffered by fast jet pilots (centripetal acceleration) are measured in "g"?

Ships of the line.
Sovereign - Battle Cruiser/Command ship
Prometheus - Fast Attack Cruiser
Akira - Missle Cruiser
Defiant - Heavy Destroyer
Excelsior (all refitted) - Light Cruiser
Centaur - Patrol ship

JoAT ships
Nebula (all refitted)
Galaxy (all refitted)
Intrepid

Dedicated ships
Nova (science)
Olympic (medical)
Ambassador (training and transport)
Shelley (Cargo and transport)

All ships not listed are to be retired and or scrapped.

Captain Seafort wrote:They are indeed the same. Why do you think the forces suffered by fast jet pilots (centripetal acceleration) are measured in "g"?

I know we don't like to use Wiki for reference, but I fail to see how it would be a problem in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

Like it says, acceleration is the change in velocity over time, gravitation is a natural phenomenon by which objects with mass attract one another.

I said, they are interchangeable mathematically. Acceleration produces a gravitational effect by increasing apparent mass, and gravity produces acceleration through attraction, but they are not the same thing.

Thorin wrote:It's impossible to crush humans between two forces. They are vector quantities - opposite directions (specifically your 1000g example) means there is no net force. No human mush.

Oops, you're right...

stitch626 wrote:

Precisely. Microwave oven = microwave oven.
Acceleration = acceleration.
Gravity = gravity.

So... what are you getting at here.

The inertial dampeners are external, they act on the outside of the vessel to counter the forces that would be formed by high accelerations. The gravity plating is internal and intended to simulate the natural gravitational forces of a Federation planet.

As I've said, the torque acting at distances further from the centre of rotation (ie the pivot) is far greater than that in the middle - hence the inertial dampers must act differently in different sections of the ship. That's what you, and Teaos, are failing to understand.

Tsukiyumi wrote:

Captain Seafort wrote:They are indeed the same. Why do you think the forces suffered by fast jet pilots (centripetal acceleration) are measured in "g"?

I know we don't like to use Wiki for reference, but I fail to see how it would be a problem in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

Like it says, acceleration is the change in velocity over time, gravitation is a natural phenomenon by which objects with mass attract one another.

I said, they are interchangeable mathematically. Acceleration produces a gravitational effect by increasing apparent mass, and gravity produces acceleration through attraction, but they are not the same thing.

You're correct that they're mathematically identical. As I said - for all intents and purposes, they are the same. Acceleration is defined as distance covered per unit time squared, gravity is - while normally described as force applied per unit mass - also defined as distance covered per unit time squared in SI units.

Regardless, in the case of this, inertial dampers create acceleration, gravity plating creates acceleration. Both are required throughout the entire ship. There is no reason to believe they are separate systems.

Thorin wrote: You said the inertial dampers couldn't do it because they weren't separate systems.
They are.
Your lack of understanding of gravity was your inability to grasp that inertial dampers and gravity plating do the same thing - cause acceleration. In the same way as a microwave oven and a microwave oven do the same thing, not in the same way as a microwave oven and barbeque do the same thing.

Stitch, gravity and acceleration are for all intents and purposes, equal. Whether you wish to use m/s^2 or N/kg is pretty trivial.

No I didnt. Not once did I say that. Infact I said several times that they could while stating the gravity plating couldnt, which, yet again, is what the debate was all about.

Must be hard studying physics when you can't even grasp the English language.

Thorin wrote:...Regardless, in the case of this, inertial dampers create acceleration, gravity plating creates acceleration. Both are required throughout the entire ship.

Yeah, I actually agree with you on that; the inertial dampener systems should theoretically be linked to the grav plating. I also agree that the dampeners must be localized systems rather than a ship-wide thing; your ten-forward example is apt.

Thorin wrote:There is no reason to believe they are separate systems.

We know they're separate things because they are referred to as separate systems.