A problem with "Sacrifice of Angels"

[Daniel]

Well think about it the Fleet that engaged the Domion Fleet was huge and we never saw the Entire Fleet so the Soverigns could have been there and i read somewhere that the Enterprise was there. And the Sovs could have been Else where as the Fleet that went to DS9 was a Small fraction of the Total UFP-Klignon Force

[I Am Spartacus]

According to DITL, three were in service from 2372. It's safe to assume that they weren't able to get to the scene in time. Remember, when he decided to go ahead and attack Sisko still had additional fleets en route that couldn't make it in time to prevent the minefield from being taken down.

[DBS]

Yeah. Again, they could have simply been assigned to different fleets, too. Not every ship in Starfleet was involved, obviously.

Of course it is also true that maybe we just didn't see them.

[Crushproof]

In real world terms, the Sovereign class was never seen outside the movies, and one brief instance in ENT: Asati Prime, where you can see a Sovereign outside the window.

[Sionnach Glic]

You can?

Must look out for that. (If I bother watching it again)

[Captain Peabody]

Sorry, but I don't really see the problem. The entire point of a 'moving wall' formation, such as that used by the Dominion in Sacrifice of Angels, is to prevent such a tactic; they form a solid wall in space with their shields, meaning that any attempt to warp past them would simply result in the ship slamming full-speed into the enemy's shields, an impact that I very much doubt either ship would survive. The only way to get past such a formation is to do exactly what Sisko did; punch a hole in the lines and hope that in the disarray some ships can slip past.

[JudgeKing]

In real world terms, the Sovereign class was never seen outside the movies, and one brief instance in ENT: Asati Prime, where you can see a Sovereign outside the window.

screencap please?

[Sionnach Glic]

Captain Peabody;

Could they not just warp around them in that case? I don't think there was anything preventing that.

[Crushproof]

In real world terms, the Sovereign class was never seen outside the movies, and one brief instance in ENT: Asati Prime, where you can see a Sovereign outside the window.

screencap please?

Afraid I don't have one, bud. Don't have the Enterprise DVDs

[Captain Peabody]

Rochey, you have to remember that the Dominion fleet was warp-capable as well. I imagine they easily could have shifted positions to match any smaller manuevers. I suppose Sisko and co. could also have simply split the fleet up and gone around all four sides at the same time, but that probably would have resulted in massive casualties, and would still have no garuntee of getting a ship through. It's a good point, though. Obviously, more thought is required...

[Captain Seafort]

I do believe there is a Sovereign that is briefly visible during the Chin'toka invasion a year later. If memory serves, it was after a Galaxy destroyed a deactivated Cardassian ODP. Just after it flew by with the rest of the fleet, I think there is a Sovereign in the upper left corner of the screen. I could be wrong, though. Screenshots anyone?

Since I remember reading somewhere that the Sov was restricted to the films to keep the E-E special, it was probably an Excelsior. Get the angles right and the two can look very similar

[DBS]

Yeah, we've talked about that earlier in the thread (Thanks for reminding us what it was about ).

You have what we decided the problem was dead-on. Why not warp around? Because they can too, and because of the situation in Sacrifice..., that situation is unacceptably advantageous for the Dominion. The Federation warps around, the Dominion chases. Their fastest ships catch up and attack the rear, forcing many ships out of warp, to be finished off at the leisure of the larger Dominion fleet.

Unless there is some division (where the lead elements of the Federation fleet continue on and the rest turn and fight), which is dangerous in its own right, Sisko made about the best decision possible.

[Sionnach Glic]

Maybe they should have tried attacking DS9 from different angles? After all, its far easier to defend something if your enemies are all bunched up in one area.

[Devore Sergez]

if the fleet did that they would have been defeated anyway. the dominion fleet would have known where they were going so they would be sandwiched between Terok Nor- and the Fleet - so lets face it it was a doomed mission anyway. and if they attacked in different angles may have been better however they dominion still out numbered them 2 to 1

[Deepcrush]

All points are good points but in the end if one fleet warps then the other warps and dividing the fed fleet would have just made the defeat even worse for Sisko.

Sisko was smart. He used fighters armed with PT's to attack cardie ships which have poor shields and are easy prey to torpedo strikes as fighters are easy to replace and thus can be lost in great numbers even by the fed. Between the fighters, sensor blocks and long range PT ships like the akira and galaxy class, Sisko was able to cause damage dominion fleet without losing any of his capital ships. Dukat was just as smart by forcing sisko to attack and not allow him to buy anymore time or cause anymore unreturned losses. Dukat not only saw Sisko's plan but also knew that he couldn't just allow half his fleet to be cut up right in front of him. The battle is beautiful for its tactics and shows two great commanders going head to head. Where "way of the warrior" was just a boxing match.