Gamma Mission Prep

[Reliant121]

Yes it can be damaged, and isnt invulnerable, but with the kind of firepower your proposing, it would deal with a Dominion battleship relatively easily. If thats the case, there is no point RP'ing it. it'll be a cake walk. Which it is NOT meant to be.

[Thorin]

Yes it can be damaged, and isnt invulnerable, but with the kind of firepower your proposing, it would deal with a Dominion battleship relatively easily. If thats the case, there is no point RP'ing it. it'll be a cake walk. Which it is NOT meant to be.

It would indeed deal with a Dominion Battleship easily if it met face to face on a single one on one battle.
How does that detract from the roleplay? It would be a cake walk only if they had a single battleship and we always had our battleship protecting every single other ship of the fleet.

[Reliant121]

The fact that this is a seperatist Dominion fleet, means there will be no more than three Dominion battleships. With the support fleet fleet dealing relatively comfortably with the lighter cruisers, that leaves the Paladin to blow the battleships. And it will manage it. We are meant to win, yes But only just.

[Thorin]

The fact that this is a seperatist Dominion fleet, means there will be no more than three Dominion battleships. With the support fleet fleet dealing relatively comfortably with the lighter cruisers, that leaves the Paladin to blow the battleships. And it will manage it. We are meant to win, yes But only just.

We would be meant to win any conventional battling, yes. And even if the battleship wasn't as I suggest, why would we only just have to win? Why does that add to the RP?
Indeed, scenarios where the fleet completely relies on the battleship, before it is somehow disabled, by NONE CONVENTIONAL battling, would add to the RP massively, IMO. It could show the shortcomings of a battleship.

[Reliant121]

look at the previous battle. we one, but the Daystrome was blasted to bits. IT gives depth, complexity. just strolling through the battle makes it too easy.

[Thorin]

look at the previous battle. we one, but the Daystrome was blasted to bits. IT gives depth, complexity. just strolling through the battle makes it too easy.

As I said, you don't just stroll, and you don't make it conventional. Just because we are expected to win easily doesn't mean we have to. Just because it is meant to be a close, knife-edge battle doesn't mean it has to be.
Depth is not added by the circumstances of the overall plot, it is added by the people who write it.

[Teaos]

So the point of your ship was to make the most powerful ship that SF can make, that is 20 years ahead of any other ship out there, and now you're complaining it will be too powerful? I wasn't the one who gave the option for it to be so powerful, if you're going to give it that brief then let it be how it should be. It's gone from wanktastic to bagofwank.

Yes and I see it it is as powerful as it could resonably be made. I think you are vastly over estimating the amount you can power it up. While we could fit more into it we would lose other things in it. If you look at the design plans you will see we added multiple power units which take up large amounts of internal volume. This adds survivability but drops its over all fire power.

No part of the Sovereign was a battleship

No its a battle cruiser. Which would mean its shields, engines and fire power is as powerful as can be. And from what we've seen they are.

Again, neither the GCS or Sovereign were designed as ships of war or were classified as battleships. Both, if they were solely warships, would be much stronger.

The GCS certinly wasnt and while the Sov wasnt JUST designed for that it was built with combat as its primary roll with other options added.

And 20 years.
The Paladin is 20 years newew than the Sovereign, and is briefed to be a battleship. Both these attributes should make it considerably stronger than a Sovereign.

And it is.

It is 20 years in the future - you're backpeddaling a lot now.

My bad I messed up the dates.

You've said yourself my argument makes sense IU, and I think it would make sense in the RP. Just because it can rip through some battlecruisers doesn't mean it's invulnerable - as I said my figures make sense and would work. It's not a relatively crappy Sovereign, but it's not a super-power killing Cube.

If it could make IU sense doesnt mean we should do it. The standard design makes sense to.

I agree with Reliant that having a ship as powerful as you want is just WAY to much. It would wipe the flaw with a Dominion Battleship which the splinter group we are fighting probably wont even have or only have one.

We could do it. But it is just way to strong for what we need it to be.

I'll see what other think but what we have is plenty strong enough and the calculator doesnt do it justice.

[Reliant121]

and the calculator is a strenght indicator. Strenght. INDICATOR. not the be all and end all.

[Thorin]

Yes and I see it it is as powerful as it could resonably be made. I think you are vastly over estimating the amount you can power it up. While we could fit more into it we would lose other things in it. If you look at the design plans you will see we added multiple power units which take up large amounts of internal volume. This adds survivability but drops its over all fire power.

Those percentages are completely your subjective view; I've provided objective evidence.

No its a battle cruiser. Which would mean its shields, engines and fire power is as powerful as can be. And from what we've seen they are.

Yes, they would be - for it's brief. For any ship, no matter what its size or power, the shields engines and fire power is as strong as they can be. Even if that's nothing for all of them - they're as strong as they can be. That doesn't mean they couldn't be stronger if they had a different brief. A battlecruiser is not a battlecruiser when it is stacked full of labs, holodecks, massive corridors, king size quarters. You make the Sovereign into a proper battleship, like the Defiant but bigger, and it would rip the current Paladin to shreds, and the Paladin is meant to be 20 years more advanced.

The GCS certinly wasnt and while the Sov wasnt JUST designed for that it was built with combat as its primary roll with other options added.

Precisely. Other options added - other options taking space and power. So before; if you made the Defiant as big as the Sovereign, it would rip the Sovereign to pieces, because it's not a proper warship, as you can see by the corridors, quarters etc.

And it is.

It's 25% stronger. The Sovereign is 200% stronger than the Galaxy. The gap between the Sovereign and Paladin should be bigger than the gap between the Galaxy and Sovereign, because of its design brief and because of the 20 years.

My bad I messed up the dates.[/qutoe]

You can't backpeddal now if you've said it's made in 2390.

If it could make IU sense doesnt mean we should do it. The standard design makes sense to.

I agree with Reliant that having a ship as powerful as you want is just WAY to much. It would wipe the flaw with a Dominion Battleship which the splinter group we are fighting probably wont even have or only have one.

It would potentially wipe the floor, yes. But why does that matter? Potential and what happens aren't always related. A simple spy or unconventional warfare could put the battleship out of action (or any other number of things) and would show the massive shortfall of SF relying on a single massive battleship. That adds to the RP IMO.

The Calculator does do it justice, though. Yes, some things like the maneouvrability aren't quantitive, but the torpedo fire (the rates and types of torpedo), the phaser power, and the shield power, are all quantitive. It is maths, it gives directly comparable numbers.

I think you know IU that my numbers are very, very reasonable, and your argument seems to consist of it not benefiting the RP, but as I've said, we can make that to our advantage. The writers give the RP depth and make it fun - how things are described and how things play out. Not the other way round - not the RP giving the writers depth and making it fun.

[Teaos]

It would potentially wipe the floor, yes. But why does that matter?

Yeah it does.

While your idea is possible its also stupid. I dont want and it would appear Reliant as well doesnt want a ship that can kick arse five ways from Sunday.

Your, ship, is, to, powerful.

It COULD be that strong. It doesnt need to be nor should it.

We could write it so that the fight isnt totally one sided but we shouldnt have to come up with some far fetched reason why our superstar destroyer battleship might lose to something else.

As it is it is far more powerful than anything else out there and could put up a damn good fight with a Dominion Battleship.

It more than fills our needs and there is absolutly no call for making it the Wanktastic you want.

[Thorin]

Your, ship, is, to, powerful.

It COULD be that strong. It doesnt need to be nor should it.

It should be as per it's design brief of being the most powerful thing Starfleet can build in 2390. Why give it that brief if you don't want it to be the most powerful thing Starfleet can build in 2390?!

We could write it so that the fight isnt totally one sided but we shouldnt have to come up with some far fetched reason why our superstar destroyer battleship might lose to something else.

Why shouldn't we have to?

As it is it is far more powerful than anything else out there and could put up a damn good fight with a Dominion Battleship.

It more than fills our needs and there is absolutly no call for making it the Wanktastic you want.

I don't want it wanktastic, but neither do I want it as a bag of wank. It is not even coming close to being 'far more powerful' than anything out there. Its phasers, torpedo and shields are hardly an improvement on a 20 year old luxury 'battlecruiser'.

[Teaos]

t should be as per it's design brief of being the most powerful thing Starfleet can build in 2390. Why give it that brief if you don't want it to be the most powerful thing Starfleet can build in 2390?!

Read through the planning threads. It is clearly explained why it is as powerful as it is. It is filling in the mission brief we set it. We choose for it to be very reliable thus it has multiple power units ect thus dropping its overall power. It was not just supposed to be a floating gun. It was supposed to be a balanced battleship, which it is.

Why shouldn't we have to?

Because its retarded.

It is not even coming close to being 'far more powerful' than anything out there

??????

Have you looked at the fucking ship?

It has the lance which can take out any ship out there in one shot, along with having other heavy weapons under the most heavy armour/shields out there. Nothing can beat this in a fight one on one and probabaly not even two on one.

[Thorin]

Read through the planning threads. It is clearly explained why it is as powerful as it is. It is filling in the mission brief we set it. We choose for it to be very reliable thus it has multiple power units ect thus dropping its overall power. It was not just supposed to be a floating gun. It was supposed to be a balanced battleship, which it is.

You chose it to have those, yes, but your percentages are too big. There should be more room for weapons, shield stuff etc. Your percentages are completely subjective. It isn't a balanced battleship, it's not a battleship. Battleships should, in single battles, wipe the floor with any other non-battleships. It is stronger than the Sovereign, but not wipe the floor stronger.

Because its retarded.

You've got no real response, then?

??????

Have you looked at the ******* ship?

It has the lance which can take out any ship out there in one shot, along with having other heavy weapons under the most heavy armour/shields out there. Nothing can beat this in a fight one on one and probabaly not even two on one.

It doesn't matter if it's got a lance or not, it's the amount of energy it can channel in to that lance. 35,000 TW is not a lot, relatively. The Galaxy Class can fire that sort of power. It is more powerful than any other Federation ship, but it's not "significantly" or "far" more powerful than anything else, as it should be. It should wipe the floor with 20 year old sub standard luxury cruisers. It should be on par with other 2390 battleships of other races, though.

[Teaos]

You've got no real response, then?

Because its retarded is a real responce. The idea that we should have to come up with some convoluted situation everytime this thing goes into combat so that the battle is not a total bloodbath is retarded. Thus "Because its retarded" is a very appropriate and resonable responce.

It doesn't matter if it's got a lance or not,

Your acting like the lance is just a big phaser. Its not, the way I designed it it has special penitration power to it. This was offset by it taking up internal volume, you know that whole balance thing we have going on.

It isn't a balanced battleship, it's not a battleship. Battleships should, in single battles, wipe the floor with any other non-battleships. It is stronger than the Sovereign, but not wipe the floor stronger.

It can take out two of any ship out there. Its got heavy armour and shieds and heavy guns, crack a dictonary, its a battleship.

[Reliant121]

IMO, Teaos = word.