USS Stargazer

[Captain Seafort]

It's fun for me. A concept that seems to be alien to you.

What's alien is the concept of someone trying to debate something they know sod-all about.

Or it could've been a clevor and overly elaborate trap that failed.

Sure. He was planning to ambush a warship with a bunch of overcrowded shuttlecraft. Makes perfect sense.

Thank you. I prefer not to leave it at "it was a mistake" since I consider it a lame easy way out.

Even when it fits all the evidence available?

Really? Did the 'gazer even do any damage? And what idiot wrote this episode?

Watch the episode and find out for yourself.

[Mark]

They easiest and most likely explination for the writers screwup and lack of common sense in this episode honestly is that Picard made a mistake. Under pressure, his ship crippled, most of his crew dead, and likely scared sh!tless, he made a mistake. Apparently his 20 years of command experience and his flawless service record counted for a great deal, as well as his association with the Admiralty. It was a bonehead move, and not even something Janeway would have done. I mean, there isn't REALLY a need to explain his mistake, is there???

[Tsukiyumi]

Dear lord, I'm getting dizzy.

[Aaron]

Hey, I've won a round once or twice

By my count you managed to get Deepcrush once on a technicality cause he can't see youtube at work and you landed one good insult on him. Congrats, you are a man to be reckoned with.

But Kendall, the Black Knight is always triumphant!

Even the Black Knight would have fallen on his own sword long before we reached this level.

[Mark]

Hey, incidentally, does anybody know if any other Federation starship as ever been captured and if so, by whom? I think the broken hull of the E-C was supposed to be taken as a trophy by the Romulans, and the Connie Defiant by the Tholians and then the Terran Empire in the MU (but that is outside our timeline, outside our universe, and the ship was adrift and a direlect with her whole crew dead) so I'm not really counting that one.

Any others????

[Sionnach Glic]

They easiest and most likely explination for the writers screwup and lack of common sense in this episode honestly is that Picard made a mistake. Under pressure, his ship crippled, most of his crew dead, and likely scared sh!tless, he made a mistake. Apparently his 20 years of command experience and his flawless service record counted for a great deal, as well as his association with the Admiralty. It was a bonehead move, and not even something Janeway would have done. I mean, there isn't REALLY a need to explain his mistake, is there???

Agreed completely. The most obvious and likely sollution is just that: Picard screwed up.

Even the Black Knight would have fallen on his own sword long before we reached this level

True. Even he had the sense to call it a draw when it got bad enough.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Or it could've been a clevor and overly elaborate trap that failed.

Sure. He was planning to ambush a warship with a bunch of overcrowded shuttlecraft. Makes perfect sense.

WTF? Where the hell did you get that from? That was wrong in at least 3 different ways. 1)The Ferengi don't have warships, 2)I said nothing about ambushing them in a shuttlecraft, 3)leaving a booby-trap is a fairly old and often successful tactic that can kill many enemy combatants without risking more of your men.

Really? Did the 'gazer even do any damage? And what idiot wrote this episode?

Watch the episode and find out for yourself.

I did a few years ago. I'm sorry if I don't have a perfect memory, or have it on DVD. I'm sorry I'm not as big of a geek as you are.

I know the 'gazer didn't damage the E-D, the Picard Maneuver being stopped by a tractor beam. If I remember correctly. What idiot thought it was a good idea to use the most obvious manoeuvre possible to try and destroy the E-D?

[Aaron]

Agreed completely. The most obvious and likely sollution is just that: Picard screwed up.

And yet they didn't nail him for the universal catch-all: conduct unbecoming.

True. Even he had the sense to call it a draw when it got bad enough.

Indeed, he would have bleed out. I guess Chakat must have an infinite blood supply along with his double set of genitalia.

[Sionnach Glic]

Hey Blackstar, feel like answering my or Seafort's points?

[Captain Seafort]

Hey, incidentally, does anybody know if any other Federation starship as ever been captured and if so, by whom?

The E-nil was captured by the Kelvans, the E-A by Sybok, the E-D by the Bynars and the Ferengi, the Defiant by the Jem'Hadar, and Voyager by the Kazon and the Hirogen.

I think the broken hull of the E-C was supposed to be taken as a trophy by the Romulans

I think you're getting mixed up with the E-D there - that's what Tomalak was planning in "The Defector" before the BoPs showed up. We were never told what happened to the E-C herself.

[Mark]

I'm still not sure how the Picard Manuver even CAN work. In an age of faster than light travel, wouldn't faster than light sensors like be sort of nessessary? Otherwise, you'd be going faster than your sensor beam, and crashing into stuff as a result.

By the way, DOES distance make any difference in the effective damage of phasers or photon torpedos? Or is just a targeting thing?

[Aaron]

WTF? Where the hell did you get that from? That was wrong in at least 3 different ways. 1)The Ferengi don't have warships,

That is a complete and total lie, the D'Kora is a warship. One that was a match for the E-D in The Last Oupost.

2)I said nothing about ambushing them in a shuttlecraft, 3)leaving a booby-trap is a fairly old and often successful tactic that can kill many enemy combatants without risking more of your men.

And so is sctullting your ship...

I did a few years ago. I'm sorry if I don't have a perfect memory, or have it on DVD. I'm sorry I'm not as big of a geek as you are.

The irony of a guy who self indentifies as a non-existant man/cat calling a Trek fan a geek is quite thick, it's choking the room.

I know the 'gazer didn't damage the E-D, the Picard Maneuver being stopped by a tractor beam. If I remember correctly. What idiot thought it was a good idea to use the most obvious manoeuvre possible to try and destroy the E-D?

A guy who thought he was reliving the Battle of Maxia perhaps?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Hey Blackstar, feel like answering my or Seafort's points?

I addresed Seafort's points, but I don't think you've made any points relevant to this discussion for be to answer.

Feel like addresing my points?

And so is sctullting your ship...

And how is this addressing my points? He could scuttle the ship and wipe out several combatants at the same time without any risk to himself.

A guy who thought he was reliving the Battle of Maxia perhaps?

Wasn't he under the influence of the illigal Ferengi 'thought maker'? Couldn't Bok put Picard's mind at a different battle, one that the E-D wouldn't be expecting?

Seriously, what dumbass wrote this episode?

[Captain Seafort]

1)The Ferengi don't have warships

What do you call the D'Koras then? They can go toe-to-toe with Starfleet's battleship.

2)I said nothing about ambushing them in a shuttlecraft

You suggested using the Stargazer as a trap. Picard had nothing else to use as a weapon. Therefore you did indeed suggest using the shuttles.

3)leaving a booby-trap is a fairly old and often successful tactic that can kill many enemy combatants without risking more of your men.

And of course Picard mentioned this major point of his evacuation of the Stargazer. And Bok mentioned losing men to these traps. Wait a minute...

I know the 'gazer didn't damage the E-D, the Picard Maneuver being stopped by a tractor beam. If I remember correctly. What idiot thought it was a good idea to use the most obvious manoeuvre possible to try and destroy the E-D?

I repeat: go and watch the episode, or read the script, and find out. I'm not doing your research for you.

[Captain Seafort]

Wasn't he under the influence of the illigal Ferengi 'thought maker'? Couldn't Bok put Picard's mind at a different battle, one that the E-D wouldn't be expecting?

The E-D's crew did expect the tactic. They were sh*tting bicks over it, since there was no known defence against it until Data devised one. Their reaction strongly implies that the Stargazer, using the manoeuvre, was a threat to the E-D.