USS Stargazer

[Reliant121]

While i said that, i do agree that Picard should have initiated timed detonation. As far as i am aware, Stargazer was not catastrophically damaged, but serious enough to warrant abandonment. Fine. Fantabidoosy. But there was time enough to activate self-destruct. If it was inactive, then rig a phaser to detonate in the warp core! Even if you have to, park a Photon torpedo by the Warp core and remotely detonate it.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

While i said that, i do agree that Picard should have initiated timed detonation. As far as i am aware, Stargazer was not catastrophically damaged, but serious enough to warrant abandonment. Fine. Fantabidoosy. But there was time enough to activate self-destruct. If it was inactive, then rig a phaser to detonate in the warp core! Even if you have to, park a Photon torpedo by the Warp core and remotely detonate it.

We don't even know if she had photons. And the warp core was probably shut down or even ejected at this point.

[Reliant121]

Semantics. you miss the point. The point being, it really isnt that hard to destroy a ship or at least render it technologically useless from the inside, something Picard should have done.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Semantics. you miss the point. The point being, it really isnt that hard to destroy a ship or at least render it technologically useless from the inside, something Picard should have done.

It was technologically useless. This is a ship from the 23rd century, the Ferengi probably could've gotten something from a surplus store that was on-par with the 'gazer's abilities. This would be like me getting my hands on a P-51 Mustang.

[Reliant121]

Semantics. you miss the point. The point being, it really isnt that hard to destroy a ship or at least render it technologically useless from the inside, something Picard should have done.

It was technologically useless. This is a ship from the 23rd century, the Ferengi probably could've gotten something from a surplus store that was on-par with the 'gazer's abilities. This would be like me getting my hands on a P-51 Mustang.

In that situation yes. But as Rochey has pointed out numerous times (and you appear to have ignored), Picard knew nothing about the Ferengi. For all he knew they could be pathetically underteched, back as far as the 23rd century with very powerful, yet crude weapons. He had no idea. He should have, to be on the sure and safe side, destroyed the Stargazer.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Semantics. you miss the point. The point being, it really isnt that hard to destroy a ship or at least render it technologically useless from the inside, something Picard should have done.

It was technologically useless. This is a ship from the 23rd century, the Ferengi probably could've gotten something from a surplus store that was on-par with the 'gazer's abilities. This would be like me getting my hands on a P-51 Mustang.

In that situation yes. But as Rochey has pointed out numerous times (and you appear to have ignored), Picard knew nothing about the Ferengi. For all he knew they could be pathetically underteched, back as far as the 23rd century with very powerful, yet crude weapons. He had no idea. He should have, to be on the sure and safe side, destroyed the Stargazer.

They were more then a match for an antique ship that only won because of the Picard Manuvour.

[Reliant121]

But Picard did not KNOW that. He didnt start the battle knowing that "That D'kora class ship has greater firepower than me and is piloted with creatures with huge ears" Did he? no he did not. There was an element of uncertainty, and to halt the uncertainty the Stargazer should have been scuttled.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

But Picard did not KNOW that. He didnt start the battle knowing that "That D'kora class ship has greater firepower than me and is piloted with creatures with huge ears" Did he? no he did not. There was an element of uncertainty, and to halt the uncertainty the Stargazer should have been scuttled.

Except this was at the end of the battle after he barely won, and only won because of the Picard manoeuvre. They still crippled his ship to the point where he had to abandon it anyway, so clearly they had combat systems superior to the Stargazer's.

[Aaron]

Except this was at the end of the battle after he barely won, and only won because of the Picard manoeuvre. They still crippled his ship to the point where he had to abandon it anyway, so clearly they had combat systems superior to the Stargazer's.

Can you provide an actual good reason why Picard should not have scuttled his ship beyond "he didn't know"? The simple fact is that he left a valuable piece of military technology adrift in space. Even if the ship was incapable of even generating it's own power, the Ferengi (or whoever) could come back salvage her and learn all sorts of valuble intelligence from it.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

The simple fact is that he left a valuable piece of military technology adrift in space.

I think I'll point out that the Stargazer was an OUTDATED SCIENCE VESSEL.

Even if the ship was incapable of even generating it's own power, the Ferengi (or whoever) could come back salvage her and learn all sorts of valuble intelligence from it.

First they'd need to interface with an alien system, then they'd have to break the command codes to get at all the goodies, and then they might gather some data which is most likely out of date by the time they get it. And that's assuming someone didn't hit the delete button on the way out.

The self-destruct on the other hand requires three command officers to activate, and we don't know how many were in any capacity to do that. They may have been dead or incapacitated.

[Aaron]

I think I'll point out that the Stargazer was an OUTDATED SCIENCE VESSEL.

No it was an outdated starship, we have no idea what role she was designed to fulfill.

First they'd need to interface with an alien system, then they'd have to break the command codes to get at all the goodies, and then they might gather some data which is most likely out of date by the time they get it. And that's assuming someone didn't hit the delete button on the way out.

Don't be obtuse, we've seen in Trek on numerous occasions that the computers are easily accessed by virtually anyone. Even if the info is outdated, it still provides information on their capabilities that can be extrapolated into a picture of current capabilities. What exactly do you think modern intelligence agencies do for a living?

The self-destruct on the other hand requires three command officers to activate, and we don't know how many were in any capacity to do that. They may have been dead or incapacitated.

We've already seen that if a senior officer in the chain is missing that the next one down can take his place: ST:III.

[Reliant121]

Plus Stargazer have been an outdated science vessel but there was no way of knowing how technologically capable she was. If an NX Suddenly appeared without warning, and let off a full barrage at the Stargazer with her shields down, it would have done crippling damage. and yet, the NX is years behind the times.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Okay, what did the Ferengi get out of the Stargazer then? If her capture was such a big deal there must be some evidence that the ferengi got something from her.

[Aaron]

Okay, what did the Ferengi get out of the Stargazer then? If her capture was such a big deal there must be some evidence that the ferengi got something from her.

They didn't, thanks to Bermans Law it was found by the father of the Ferengi Captain who Picard killed. Who preferred to use it for revenge rather than exploit the knowledge it contained.

[Sionnach Glic]

I think I'll point out that the Stargazer was an OUTDATED SCIENCE VESSEL.

Irrelevant.
It was a Starfleet vessel. It was armed. It had a database of information aboard that could be highly valuable to an attacker. It had standard Federation technology aboard.

Now, let's go through the scenario taking the above into account.

You're flying your ship through space, and suddenly you're attacked by an unprovoked enemy. This enemy is difficult to beat and seemingly advanced, yet you manage to take them down. However, your ship is disabled and unable to leave the area, so let's examine what the stiuation now is:
You have no idea how long it will take this new enemy to get reinforcements to the area to finish you off or capture you.
Likewise, you have no idea whether this is the prelude to an all out attack on the Federation.
The enemy stands to gain a lot of valuable information about the Federation by capturing your ship.
You cannot guarantee that help will arrive before the enemy does.

Now, taking that into account, letting your ship fall into enemy hands is the worst thing you could possibly do. Therefore, you are obliged to destroy your ship.

First they'd need to interface with an alien system, then they'd have to break the command codes to get at all the goodies, and then they might gather some data which is most likely out of date by the time they get it.

It'll take them all of five minutes to get through the Feds' "security". We've seen that happen before.

The self-destruct on the other hand requires three command officers to activate, and we don't know how many were in any capacity to do that. They may have been dead or incapacitated.

Not necessarily. Janeway had the authority to activate the self-destruct on her own.