Telepathy and legal rights in Trek

[KuvahMagh]

No, it's because people don't work like that.

Correction, Humans don't work like that.

Forgive my ignorance but...

It seems to me that for this to work this species in question would have to have 0% self determination or self-will, otherwise like they said it would collapse. Humans don't work like that because we are driven my nature to test just how far we can go then try and cross that line. That comes from an inquesitive native along with self-determination...

[Blackstar the Chakat]

No, it's because people don't work like that.

Correction, Humans don't work like that.

Forgive my ignorance but...

It seems to me that for this to work this species in question would have to have 0% self determination or self-will, otherwise like they said it would collapse. Humans don't work like that because we are driven my nature to test just how far we can go then try and cross that line. That comes from an inquesitive native along with self-determination...

Well, I don't know exactly how it works(other then it's all mental) or anything like that, but I do know the headbands have been working for the Chakat-kin for over 4 generation now so they've gotta be doing something right.

[Tsukiyumi]

Humans don't work like that because we are driven my nature to test just how far we can go then try and cross that line...

This is a true point. And a whole mess of us have died crossing lines.

[KuvahMagh]

Well, I don't know exactly how it works(other then it's all mental) or anything like that, but I do know the headbands have been working for the Chakat-kin for over 4 generation now so they've gotta be doing something right.

Ok, I know you like this but I'm forced to ask right now, you realise this is fiction right? Just because someone rwrites something doesn't mean it is true. Its the same with Trek, we have tons of discussions on the various ideas because they aren't real...

[KuvahMagh]

Humans don't work like that because we are driven my nature to test just how far we can go then try and cross that line...

This is a true point. And a whole mess of us have died crossing lines.

Yep thats what I mean, even lines that are quit obvious they will still try and cross...

"When you get right up to the line that you're not supposed to cross, the only person in front of you will be me!"
-CDR (CENTCOM)
"There's nothing wrong with crossing that line a little bit, it's jumping over it buck naked that will probably get you in trouble..."
-Lt Col (EUCOM) responding to the above

[Tsukiyumi]

Humans don't work like that because we are driven my nature to test just how far we can go then try and cross that line...

This is a true point. And a whole mess of us have died crossing lines.

Yep thats what I mean, even lines that are quit obvious they will still try and cross...

"When you get right up to the line that you're not supposed to cross, the only person in front of you will be me!"
-CDR (CENTCOM)
"There's nothing wrong with crossing that line a little bit, it's jumping over it buck naked that will probably get you in trouble..."
-Lt Col (EUCOM) responding to the above

I was referring more to people trying to fly (how many died, do you suppose, trying to test some half-assed flying machine? ), to invent better power sources, etc. Many more will die when space exploration moves to the private sector, of course.

Then there's always, " You can't climb that mountain; you'll die."

Plenty make it, but a number of people have died climbing Everest... Why? Because it's there/because we can. Sometimes, pushing boundaries leads to great things, but many times, it just leads to disaster.

[KuvahMagh]

I'm right there with you, I was just saying that regardless fo the line someone will try and cross it. Unless this species has no curiosity, self will or determination and are all just slave minds then they are bound to try and cross it, if they haven't already then the species isn't normal or the writing is flawed.

[Mark]

Unless it's something we've been trained that we can't do for generations. For example, early on, lets say somebody tells your great great ancestor that it is impossible to eat on sunday, and if they do, they would become very ill. Again assume it is somebody that they trust. So they grow up believing that they cannot eat on sunday. Sure, they get hungry and wonder what would happen if they did, would it really be that bad. But they trust the one who told them this. So they teach the same thing to each desendant. Would someone down the family tree finally risk it? Most likely. But then assume that nobody belived them. What you'd have is an absoulute belief that you physically cannot eat on sunday, and it's just a fact. Right?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Unless it's something we've been trained that we can't do for generations. For example, early on, lets say somebody tells your great great ancestor that it is impossible to eat on sunday, and if they do, they would become very ill. Again assume it is somebody that they trust. So they grow up believing that they cannot eat on sunday. Sure, they get hungry and wonder what would happen if they did, would it really be that bad. But they trust the one who told them this. So they teach the same thing to each desendant. Would someone down the family tree finally risk it? Most likely. But then assume that nobody belived them. What you'd have is an absoulute belief that you physically cannot eat on sunday, and it's just a fact. Right?

Yes, something like that. There is sure to be someone who suceds on eating on Sunday but the general family tree wouldn't try it.

The Chakat-Kin have done something like that for over four generations. And those that know the reality of the headbands choose not to make it common knowledge for self-preservation purposes.

we have tons of discussions on the various ideas because they aren't real...

Not yet at least

[Mark]

Yey.......do I win a cookie yet???

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Yey.......do I win a cookie yet???

Sure. Do we have a "hand a cookie" emoticon?

[Mark]

Yey.......do I win a cookie yet???

Sure. Do we have a "hand a cookie" emoticon?

I get a cookie!!!!!

[Mikey]

Why would you mention the scent glands only when talking about the skunk-like creatures? I'd imagine most fictional cat-based creations would have them as well, as a variety of terrestrial felines have them - civets, most famously, and other varieties of feral cats; but the world's popular favorite animal, the tiger, has scent glands between its front toes.

[Aaron]

Why would you mention the scent glands only when talking about the skunk-like creatures? I'd imagine most fictional cat-based creations would have them as well, as a variety of terrestrial felines have them - civets, most famously, and other varieties of feral cats; but the world's popular favorite animal, the tiger, has scent glands between its front toes.

THe domestic house cat has them on it's face, for a mundane species. And if you scare the ever-linging crap out of a cat, they can make a rather unpleasent skunk smell.

[Sionnach Glic]

Unless it's something we've been trained that we can't do for generations. For example, early on, lets say somebody tells your great great ancestor that it is impossible to eat on sunday, and if they do, they would become very ill. Again assume it is somebody that they trust. So they grow up believing that they cannot eat on sunday. Sure, they get hungry and wonder what would happen if they did, would it really be that bad. But they trust the one who told them this. So they teach the same thing to each desendant. Would someone down the family tree finally risk it? Most likely. But then assume that nobody belived them. What you'd have is an absoulute belief that you physically cannot eat on sunday, and it's just a fact. Right?

Except that problem is that these creatures aren't told there'd be any harmful effects if they try to use their telepathy. Therefore there's absolutely no reason at all not to try.

Well, I don't know exactly how it works(other then it's all mental) or anything like that, but I do know the headbands have been working for the Chakat-kin for over 4 generation now so they've gotta be doing something right.

So this analysis is the correct one, then:

It seems to me that for this to work this species in question would have to have 0% self determination or self-will, otherwise like they said it would collapse. Humans don't work like that because we are driven my nature to test just how far we can go then try and cross that line. That comes from an inquesitive native along with self-determination...