As Rochey said, the fact that a natural disaster is responsible for loss of life is no reason to not to help.
And those last three aren't really nature. Unless you say we are animals and apart of nature.
I do. Also, the Prime Directive was the reason the Feds gave for not kicking the Cardies of Bajor which, given the demonstrated superiority of Nebula and Galaxy class ships over the Galor class, was within their means.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
The Federation is not the alpha quadrant poice force.
Bajor was none of their business.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Teaos wrote:The Federation is not the alpha quadrant poice force.
Bajor was none of their business.
They were at war with the Cardies. The Bajorans had been fighting the Cardie occupation for decades. If any modern nation had been in a similar situation the Bajorans would have been given more Federation weapons and support than they knew what to do with - see Afghanistan in the 80s for an example. Beyond this look at Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Darfur, Rwanda, etc. You could argue that the great powers that got involved, and are getting involved there were not and are not the world's police force. They're still getting involved. With limited effect a lot of the time, either due to incompetence on the ground or a lack of political will to get too involved, but they still got involved.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Ireland ain't the worlds police force, yet we sent aid to counties suffering from disaster and troops into wartorn countries. As did many countries. There is nothing stopping the Federation from administering such aid, only their screwed up morals.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
It's worth mentioning that the rationale given for the prime directive is not that the Feds think it's beneath them to help others, or that there's some high moral reason for it... it's becuase they believe that the results of such help are never positive in the long run.
As Picard said in Symbiosis : "History has proved again and again that whenever Mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disasterous."
Could the Federation have kicked Cardassia off Bajor? Possibly so. But they didn't do so because they honestly believe that the Bajorans would be worse off if they had. And I can kind of see the rationale, actually; left on their own, the Bajorans did indeed win out against the occupation, and were the stronger for it. If the Feds had simply rescued them, what would be the lesson there - that you don't need to stand up for yourself, you should just wait to be rescued?
When a whole civilisation faces death it's rather harder to justify, to be sure. But it's worth noticing in Homeward that the one person they really did "rescue" in a conventional sense ended up so miserable that he killed himself.
I don't necessarily agree with the prime directive all the time... but arguments against it tend to focus on the needs that exist right then and there for individuals. The Federation tend to take a longer term, more society-wde view of the impacts of their help or lack thereof.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
And, when we have seen an on-the-spot or localized subversion of the prime directive (mostly in TOS,) it's usually one of the times when Trekkers all over decry the fact that the captain involved shouldn't be doing that!
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
While I agree with what Graham said I am stick to my opinion to,
If people some to see the Federation as Galactic police then we are in real shit.
Same thing happened to America.
It went and solved all the worlds problems (Tried to I should say) and when they finally didn't go help people resented them for it even though they had no obligation to do it.
Its the whole "Why did you help them and not us" scenario.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
I'm not suggesting the Federation get involved everywhere. I am suggesting that, if it is in their power to stop an entire species from being wiped out then they should help them.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
The problem I would say is not the fundamental principle that "turning an entire species' view of the universe upside-down is a bad idea", but the way that principle has been twisted into "never under any circumstances get involved with other species, even to save them from extinction, even if you can do it without their ever knowing about it. The basic principle that giving species knowledge and technology that they would not develop for themselves for centuries is a good one - I shudder to think what would happen if George Bush got his hands on any Trek weaponary, or a transporter. The idea of leaving species to die though, even when they can do it covertly, as they were ultimately able to do with the Boraalans, just to uphold their twisted version of morality, turns my stomach. Morality should always be about doing the greatest good for the greatest number, and in my book the certainty of an entire species' extinction is a damn sight worse than the possibility of cultural contamination.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
But then you have the problem of what happens if that race you saved goes onto become xenopobic assholes who try to cleans the Galaxy of all other races... you can never know what the future may bring.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Teaos wrote:But then you have the problem of what happens if that race you saved goes onto become xenopobic assholes who try to cleans the Galaxy of all other races... you can never know what the future may bring.
Or they might go on to become the peacemakers who end all wars. No-one can ever know what the future might bring, so we have to base our choices on the information available. You might as well ban doctors from treating any dying child on the grounds that they might grow up to become the next Hitler.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
But that is our species and our problem. Saving that race was in no way shape or form our problem. We could have helped them but the federation choose to stick to its policy of none interference.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
And if the Vulcans had followed this twisted morality, where would humanity be? IIRC, didn't humanity undergo a massive nuclear war? I'd say we were pretty damn glad of another race helping us back then.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
The Vulcans didn't save us from anything. They contacted a species that had just started warp flight. They aided in our advancement and survival they didnt save us. In fact we could have used their help 20 years earlier to prevent the war yet they choose not to.
What does defeat mean to you?
Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
IIRC, they helped us clean up the radiation that would otherwise have killed most of the remaing population.
They contacted a species that had just started warp flight.
And why should the developement of a warp drive suddenly make a race worth saving? If anything they should be more dangerous than saving a bunch of cavemen.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
