Klingon Bird of Prey size paradox

[Meste17]

So I am having INTENSE difficulty establishing which class of Klingon Bird of Prey actually exists in canon and what it's permanent size is.

https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/arti ... %20ship%20(in%20flight,the%20Galaxy%20and%20Ambassador%20classes.

According to this above link, the bird of prey itself has no less than 6 distinct sizes, as finally concluded by the site as the following:

109.7m - exact original design size of Klingon BoP
158.3m - roughly the size Martok's BoP is supposed to (although it should be actually the same size as all small BoPs!)
228.3m - exact length of D7 cruiser
329.2m - length that the BoPs seemed to have in TNG
474.8m - almost exactly the length of the Vor'cha class
684.7m - length of the Negh'Var (and of the DS9TM BoP)



Picard further complicates matters by specifically saying (as confirmed by Memory Alpha) that the HMS Bounty, the original BoP from ST3, is B'Rel class, but Worf specifically identifies the BoPs that attack the Enterprise-D in "Rascals" as the same EXACT class, B'Rel.

The site, DITL, complicates matters by the following:

K'Pak (35 m)
D-11 (the one in ST3, 109 m)
B'Rel/K'Vort (329 m)
D'Tai (654 m)


So what is the specific list of classes, and which sizes do they belong to?!

[McAvoy]

There is no set list for the classes of Bird of Prey. I mean officially or semi Officially there are only two. The B'Rel class which we saw in ST3 and onwards and the larger 300+ meter one called the K'Vort class.

Someone long ago but not on this site I think actually did a detailed analysis on the scene from The Defector showing that through perspective that the two Bird of Preys could have been the K'Vort class at the 300+ meter range instead of the 600+ meter one.

So the way I see it, there are only two Bird of Prey classes. The B'Rel and the K'Vort class. Everything else is just onscreen inconsistencies.

Remember that there are scaling issues with other classes too. Like the Excelsior and Defiant. The Excelsior class due to the model itself lends it to be around 700 meters long due to for example the size of the bridge on the model. And the long list of the Defiant being anywhere between 68 to 170+ meters.

[Meste17]

There is no set list for the classes of Bird of Prey. I mean officially or semi Officially there are only two. The B'Rel class which we saw in ST3 and onwards and the larger 300+ meter one called the K'Vort class.

Someone long ago but not on this site I think actually did a detailed analysis on the scene from The Defector showing that through perspective that the two Bird of Preys could have been the K'Vort class at the 300+ meter range instead of the 600+ meter one.

So the way I see it, there are only two Bird of Prey classes. The B'Rel and the K'Vort class. Everything else is just onscreen inconsistencies.

Remember that there are scaling issues with other classes too. Like the Excelsior and Defiant. The Excelsior class due to the model itself lends it to be around 700 meters long due to for example the size of the bridge on the model. And the long list of the Defiant being anywhere between 68 to 170+ meters.

Hmmm good point. Thank you for that clarification. So just go with the B'Rel and K'Vort?

[IanKennedy]

The ones on our site are an attempt to explain the sizes. We have an article to explain:

https://www.ditl.org/article-page.php?A ... D=Articles

[Meste17]

The ones on our site are an attempt to explain the sizes. We have an article to explain:

https://www.ditl.org/article-page.php?A ... D=Articles

Yes, I saw that page and appreciate it. But the link I sent above for Ex Astris Scientia contradicts yours for like, NO rhyme or reason.

[McAvoy]

The ones on our site are an attempt to explain the sizes. We have an article to explain:

https://www.ditl.org/article-page.php?A ... D=Articles

Yes, I saw that page and appreciate it. But the link I sent above for Ex Astris Scientia contradicts yours for like, NO rhyme or reason.

Different opinions on the subject matter. Not like DITL or Ex Astrid Scientia are official Trek sites. They are just fan sites that have been around nearly 30 years and used as references.

[Meste17]

Hmmm, good point.

[McAvoy]

In the end, it's fan speculation. If you want to believe the Klingons made multiple different scaled Bird of Preys that is up to you as a fan.

Me as a fan I would rather just think there are two sizes and that is it. B'Rel class came first and the K'Vort class came later. Maybe as stopgap measure meant to combat the Excelsior and later Ambassador class.

[Meste17]

So the final verdict IS that it's just the B'Rel (which is the BoP in ST3), and the larger K'Vort (TNG)?

[McAvoy]

So the final verdict IS that it's just the B'Rel (which is the BoP in ST3), and the larger K'Vort (TNG)?

Up to you. I only do it for simplicity's sake. You have the original, the small one and the one that is scaled up three fold, or 27 times the volume. You scale it up even further to match the 600 meter one, you end up with 216 times the volume. Every time you do this you end up with issues with structural strength.

There is also that trend that the K'Vort class tends to have its wings locked all the way up whereas the B'Rel class tends to have its wings in thd down position.

[Coalition]

I'd go with multiple sizes that are used with standard 'Bird of Prey' tactics. As tech marched on larger hulls were needed to provide the necessary firepower, and the smaller hulls were passed down from major houses to minor houses to smaller families.

A Major House might have the ~300m long BoP because it can afford the technological capabilities to provide maintenance for it, a minor House might only be able to support a 200m long Bird of Prey, and a smaller family might only be able to support the ~100m long Bird of Prey. The rough similar design and tactics mean that a Major House that has a Minor House allied with it can easily bring the Minor House members on board as crew replacements. Similarly the Minor House can get the smaller family to send warriors to help crew the 200m Bird of Prey.

Of course with this sort of fealty where the smaller Houses help the larger Houses, it is expected that the larger Houses will provide equivalent honor for them. This can be marriage offers, adoptions into the larger House, oaths of blood-brothers, or mere treasure.

So during the Dominion War I'd expect a lot of smaller families getting wiped out not merely by casualties, but by being absorbed into a larger House. in times of relative peace you'd have some groups in each family eventually disagreeing with the Patriarch and striking out, so you'd have Major Houses spawning new Minor Houses, and Minor Houses spawning new families.

[McAvoy]

I don't disagree with the Minor Houses and Major Houses part I just disagree with having more than two BoP sizes relation to the houses. I think the K'Tinga class would be a ship built and used even by the Minor Houses due to how known and established that class would be by the 24th century.

That would fill that 200 meter part. Only the Vorcha would be used by the Major Houses which would take up that 400-500 meter ship and the Negh'Var would be only built by the Imperial Fleet shipyards itself.