Things that make you go "Hmmm?"

[Admiral Dunsel]

These are just some random thoughts about Star Trek in general, that I've had in the last few years. Things that have always left me with a persistant "?" over my head.
Not trying to start a huge debate or issue here, and I'm reluctant to ask others for opinions on anything, because asking for an opinion is like asking for a tribble. Before you know it, you've got more than you needed or wanted. But I still would like to hear some of your thoughts on this.

-Romulus is destryoyed in the Prime universe by a supernova. Remus too? I can't accept that it wasn't also destroyed. That shockwave had to destroy half the Romulan star system, and possibly it's sun, before being able to reach the planet Romulus. The resulting changes in the gravational fields of such a system alone would have laid waste to any surviving planets (THIS! is Ceti-Alpha Five!).

-Does the destruction of the Romulian seat of government make the Treaty of Algernon null and void?
Anyone care for a cloak? It's cold out there.

-What if the Prime/Abrams timeline split was actually caused by the difference between Spock's arriving in-time/not-in-time to save the Romulan system? Who would know when it actually happened?
Business as usual then for the Prime Universe? Spock alive, having saved the Romulians? Unity at last?
Temporal mechanics suggest that the greatest moment for potential change in any timeline, will occur at that most crucial point where the smallest of change in any event, will make the most significat impact (The Edith Keller Effect.).

-Why isn't there a Star Trek version of the game "Risk"?
(I get $ credit for suggesting it !!!!)

-Voyager's EMH showed a remakable aptitude for learning and self-development, far beyond that of the other holograms we've seen.
What if, during it's development, Dr. Zimmerman and Lt. Barclay had researced, studied, and then 'borrowed' some of the smaller, unique binary computer programing codes developed by Dr. Noonian Soong for his Positronic Brain programing, without actually having to use a positronic brain/computer construct, to allow such a necessary adaptability for a computer progam to advance beyond it's original programing? And wouldn't such a self-aware program, in a non-positronic computer system, eventually require more memory space than the physical components that house the memory can store?

[Mikey]

-Romulus is destryoyed in the Prime universe by a supernova. Remus too? I can't accept that it wasn't also destroyed. That shockwave had to destroy half the Romulan star system, and possibly it's sun, before being able to reach the planet Romulus. The resulting changes in the gravational fields of such a system alone would have laid waste to any surviving planets (THIS! is Ceti-Alpha Five!).

Assuming Remus was in the same solar system as Romulus, then it absolutely would have been destroyed concurrently. Even if it somehow escaped the shockwave of the actual supernova, it would have no sun any longer. Ergo, dead planet.

-Does the destruction of the Romulian seat of government make the Treaty of Algernon null and void?
Anyone care for a cloak? It's cold out there.

What? This is ridiculous. Would a treaty with the U.S. be void if we relocated the seat of government from Washington, D.C. to a different city? Of course not.

-What if the Prime/Abrams timeline split was actually caused by the difference between Spock's arriving in-time/not-in-time to save the Romulan system? Who would know when it actually happened?
Business as usual then for the Prime Universe? Spock alive, having saved the Romulians? Unity at last?

I think the changes wrought by Spock have/had/will have already occurred... any incursion into the past made by Spock is "fated" to have exactly the effect shown by such an incursion in Star Trek.
Temporal mechanics suggest that the greatest moment for potential change in any timeline, will occur at that most crucial point where the smallest of change in any event, will make the most significat impact (The Edith Keller Effect.).

[Admiral Dunsel]

-Romulus is destryoyed in the Prime universe by a supernova. Remus too? I can't accept that it wasn't also destroyed. That shockwave had to destroy half the Romulan star system, and possibly it's sun, before being able to reach the planet Romulus. The resulting changes in the gravational fields of such a system alone would have laid waste to any surviving planets (THIS! is Ceti-Alpha Five!).

Assuming Remus was in the same solar system as Romulus, then it absolutely would have been destroyed concurrently. Even if it somehow escaped the shockwave of the actual supernova, it would have no sun any longer. Ergo, dead planet.

I agree. From everything I've seen and read in all the various Star Trek resource materials, Romulus was the third planet out from their sun, and Remus was the fourth.

But I haven't heard anything from sources saying that Remus was destroyed too. I just wanted to hear someone else say the same.

-Does the destruction of the Romulian seat of government make the Treaty of Algernon null and void?
Anyone care for a cloak? It's cold out there.

What? This is ridiculous. Would a treaty with the U.S. be void if we relocated the seat of government from Washington, D.C. to a different city? Of course not.

In the spirit of the treaty, and the spirit of the ideals for which Star Fleet stands for, I agree here also. Although I can see where some Federation Lawyers, politicians and others (Section 31) would try to make an issue of this, as the government infrastructure was not just relocated, but outright destroyed. An all new governing body and representatives has to be established. and to take advantage of the situation to re-negotiate the terms of such a treaty with a state that suddenly finds itself in such a weakened position, would be like dropping a candy bar on an ant hill to politicians and lawyers. All to just win some concessions from them.

Again, it's nice to someone else echoing my own thoughts on the subject. I'd offer all the aid and assistance Star Fleet can provide to assist the Romulian people recover from this tragedy. Hearts and minds! White hats and cavalry riding over the hill to save the day..., I still believe that we are the good guys.

-What if the Prime/Abrams timeline split was actually caused by the difference between Spock's arriving in-time/not-in-time to save the Romulan system? Who would know when it actually happened?
Business as usual then for the Prime Universe? Spock alive, having saved the Romulians? Unity at last?

I think the changes wrought by Spock have/had/will have already occurred... any incursion into the past made by Spock is "fated" to have exactly the effect shown by such an incursion in Star Trek.
Temporal mechanics suggest that the greatest moment for potential change in any timeline, will occur at that most crucial point where the smallest of change in any event, will make the most significat impact (The Edith Keller Effect.).

[McAvoy]

Ehhh I am too drunk to read in quote replies.

Romulus and Remus are within the same system. Can't think any time they are not.

Possible that Abrams universe started earlier. Does Abrams say anything when it did start to be different?

[Captain Seafort]

Possible that Abrams universe started earlier.

Not just possible but almost certain - ships do not jump in size by an order of magnitude just because another ship encountered something nasty 25 years earlier.

[Teaos]

In a universe where there was never a "Supersize me" documentary.

[Nutso]

In a universe where there was never a "Supersize me" documentary.

I'm not familiar with this reference. What does it mean?

[Mikey]

In a universe where there was never a "Supersize me" documentary.

I'm not familiar with this reference. What does it mean?

It was a documentary about current American eating habits.

[Tsukiyumi]

Possible that Abrams universe started earlier.

Not just possible but almost certain - ships do not jump in size by an order of magnitude just because another ship encountered something nasty 25 years earlier.

I still maintain that after First Contact, we got an offshoot universe, which Enterprise and the Abramsverse are set in. Plenty of evidence for that.

Frankly, the "original timeline" is a joke anyways. Sisko takes Gabriel Bell's place, for example. Transparent Aluminum being another. Seems like every time they tampered with the past, we got essentially a new timeline, only not as drastically changed.

[Graham Kennedy]

Possible that Abrams universe started earlier.

Not just possible but almost certain - ships do not jump in size by an order of magnitude just because another ship encountered something nasty 25 years earlier.

I still maintain that after First Contact, we got an offshoot universe, which Enterprise and the Abramsverse are set in. Plenty of evidence for that.

The canon, and the writer's intent, could not possibly be more clear on this issue.

"The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents, that cannot be anticipated by either party."

By all means theorise that the branching point was earlier; there's no law against speculation. But it's no different from the "Kirk and Spock were secret lovers" type theories.

Frankly, the "original timeline" is a joke anyways. Sisko takes Gabriel Bell's place, for example. Transparent Aluminum being another. Seems like every time they tampered with the past, we got essentially a new timeline, only not as drastically changed.

That's pretty much why people use terms like "the Prime timeline" or "the Preferred timeline" rather than "original". There's nothing to say that some historical alteration shouldn't be part of the Prime/Preferred timeline.

[Captain Seafort]

The canon, and the writer's intent, could not possibly be more clear on this issue.

"The contrary, Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents, that cannot be anticipated by either party."

Of course he did. However, the neo-E demonstrates that the prior history of the universe he encountered had clearly diverged at some unknown prior point from that depicted in TOS.

By all means theorise that the branching point was earlier; there's no law against speculation. But it's no different from the "Kirk and Spock were secret lovers" type theories.

With the exception that there's evidence for this one in the size of the neo-E.

[Graham Kennedy]

Of course he did. However, the neo-E demonstrates that the prior history of the universe he encountered had clearly diverged at some unknown prior point from that depicted in TOS.

No, it does nothing of the sort.

[Mikey]

The problemn with banching timelines, as seems to bear repeating, is that there is no finite limit to the number of branches or the number of causal relationships involved in such branches. Further, what one point of view may consider a further branching is to another simply a revision and inclusion in an extant branch.

[Mikey]

But it's no different from the "Kirk and Spock were secret lovers" type theories.

BTW, Black Sails episiod "XIII" last night... holy squeee!