ST: Into the Darkness !!!SPOILERS!!!

[Teaos]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILERS FOLLOWING!!!!!!!!

























Okay assuming todays news about the Villan being Khan is correct...

What do you think?

Me and Tsu were talkign today, I think another ship, not Kirks Enterprise, found Space Seed years ago, woke up Khan, didnt work out who/what he was, he joined Starleet, became trusted, got ranked. Then formulated a plan that ends up in ST:ITD.

[Graham Kennedy]

Doesn't he say something about wanting revenge in one of the trailers?

If the scenario is as you describe, I'm not really seeing what he could really want revenge for...

[Tsukiyumi]

I'm not really seeing what he could really want revenge for...

What happened to the rest of his crew from the Botany Bay in this timeline?

[Teaos]

Revenge for what happen in the Eugenics wars? Revenge for a mission he had to do?

[McAvoy]

I am hoping he is not Khan. Maybe a secret lacky? Maybe we will see Khan in the end in the shadows.

[IanKennedy]

There is no doubt about it anymore, it is Khan, I've read spoilers elsewhere that directly say it is. I think the Botany Bay is out of the picture though. His back story is going to be quite different, reading between the lines and knowing what we've seen in the trailers.

[IanKennedy]

If we're pretty much saying what we consider the plot to be mine is as follows:

Khan is grown from an embryo by Starfleet to be a 'super spy'/agent/new model uber starfleet crewman.
He goes on some sort of mission and something goes wrong. The big ship may well be part of that.
He then wants revenge on Starfleet for what went wrong, thus the bombing of SF headquarters in London.
Kirk does after him.
Stuff happens.

[Teaos]

Okay:

I cant see him being grown, seems very anti Starfleet, also they souldnt call him Khan, naming him after someone who treid to take over Earth?

I think another vessel found the original Space Seed ship years ago, woke up Khan and maybe other with out knowing its them, Khan joined Starfleet, stuff happened, Revenge.

[Graham Kennedy]

Our member T'Pau has pointed me to an interview Cummerbach did. She noted "an bit of information that seemed important but I don't know what it means, maybe you will."

You can see what she was talking about Here

Note that Khan gives Kirk coordinates that are "not far from Earth", and says that as for reasons to go there "I can give you 72. They're on board your ship and they have been all along."

Consider the Botany Bay. A sleeper ship, very slow by 24th century standards. In 300 years it wouldn't be more than a few hundred AU from Earth, a tiny fraction of one light year. Not far, indeed.

Now, from Space Seed :

Kirk : "Scotty, any records, log books of any kind?"
Scotty : "Negative. They were in suspended animation when the ship took off."
Kirk : "How many alive?"
Scotty : "12 units have malfunctioned, leaving 72 still operating."

72 reasons to go. 72 sleepers on the Botany Bay.

I think the back story to this film is that in this timeline Starfleet found the Botany Bay, rather than Kirk finding it. They recruited Khan and his followers, gave them new identities - John Harrison - but betrayed him somehow. THAT's what he wants revenge for.

[stitch626]

If that is the case... it completely revives my interest in the film.

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, that seems to be what's going on. Sounds great to me.

[Don-Okay]

So I wonder if they know who they are or if they didn't work it out.

[CaptainQuantum]

So can those of us who've seen it now post details or do we need a super-spoiler for the love of God don't look oh the humanity thread??

EDIT: Ok, so I went ahead and did that.

[Graham Kennedy]

Okay, so my guesses above are partly right, partly wrong.

Right : Starfleet did indeed find Khan, rather than Kirk.

They did indeed wake him, and make him an operative of theirs.

And they did betray him and make him go out for revenge.

Wrong : They didn't wake the rest of his people - they used them as bargaining chips to make sure Khan did what he was told.

The coordinates are not the Botany Bay - it's the location of the spacedock where they built the USS Vengeance.

Khan's people are indeed aboard the Enterprise... but not hiding amongst the crew. They're hidden in the advanced torpedoes that are put aboard.

[IanKennedy]

Also, yes, he is an operative of a new department of Star Fleet called..... Section 31.