US presidential elections and the wider world

[Captain Peabody]

Seafort: I understand that, from your point of view, Hillary is in fact right-wing....but frankly, from the British point of view, every single politician in America is right-wing. But, at the same time, from the American point of view, most British politicians are so loony left-wing it's not even funny. It's a basic difference in political climate.

So, while perhaps from the perspective of British politics, Hillary is a centrist, from the American point of view (you know, the one the people who actually vote in American elections have?), Hillary is most definitely a left-wing liberal. You can take my word for that...

[sunnyside]

Also remember that most things are measured from the status quo and you can only shift things so much. Also what works in one country/situation won't necesarily work in another. (What I wish Bush had considered about Iraq)

It is quite possible that Hillary would like a total gun ban and the Canadian health care system, and that if she were running in Britain that would be her position.

However she's smart enough to know that taking those positions directly here in America would be political suicide. (At least a third of American households have a gun for instance).

Instead politicians have to settle for slowly shifting things to where they want them. Change things a little, get people used to it, than change them some more and so on.

This, of course, is why people spaz so much with small gun control laws or slightly shifting health care to government overwatch or whatever. They figure it's just a precourser to having their guns melted down or dying while waiting for a simple procedure.

[Captain Seafort]

Seafort: I understand that, from your point of view, Hillary is in fact right-wing....but frankly, from the British point of view, every single politician in America is right-wing.

Yes, and not just ours - I'm not aware of a single western nation that's as right-wing as the US. Indeed by European standards the British political spectrum is itself somewhat right-wing. I'm not sufficiently au fey with the current status of Canadian and Australasian politics to make a definate call, but I believe they are weighted similarly to Britain, with the Canadians and New Zealanders slightly to the left and the Austrailians slightly to the right.

The bottom line is, given that the combined populations of these countries is considerably greater than that of the US, it seems logical to consider the US to be the outlier rather than the global standard.

It is quite possible that Hillary would like a total gun ban and the Canadian health care system, and that if she were running in Britain that would be her position.

However she's smart enough to know that taking those positions directly would be political suicide. (At least a third of American households have a gun for instance).

Possibly. However, her statements and voting record are the only available methods of determining her political beliefs and must therefore be taken more or less at face value (the latter more so than the former).

[sunnyside]

Well according to her the former more than the latter.

I do appreciate that you only get to vote yes, no, or no vote and things can be much more complicated than that. However I do believe you have to be able to state your opinion directly and concisely. Especially for a politician.

As for her position, well, I generally think people should be considered in regards to their country. If you take things by a "global standard," weighted by population, I would guess America would land on the left wing side of things.

Regardless she's squarely a Democrat. McCain is actually very moderate but he still lands in the republican camp.

[Captain Seafort]

Well according to her the former more than the latter.

I do appreciate that you only get to vote yes, no, or no vote and things can be much more complicated than that. However I do believe you have to be able to state your opinion directly and concisely. Especially for a politician.

Politicians, with some very rare exceptions, are liars by their very nature - they'll say whatever they have to to get elected. Voting record isn't a guaranteed measure either, but I'd say it's a bit more reliable because it demonstrates them putting their money where their mouth is.

As for her position, well, I generally think people should be considered in regards to their country. If you take things by a "global standard," weighted by population, I would guess America would land on the left wing side of things.

I doubt that very much. Note that I specifically mentioned western nations in order to get a rough like-for-like comparison. As for general indications of a country's overal political leaning, the United States is the only western nation not to have universal health care and one of only a handful of such nations to retain the death penalty. Both these facts demonstrate a right-wing slant to the country.

[Mikey]

All that you say may be true, but we're talking about American candidates in American elections. Therefore, the American definitions of left, right, and center apply. It doesn't really matter what the rest of the world thinks of our policies or where they position us, because the rest of the world isn't voting in our presidential election. It's academic and obstructive to discuss the American presidential election in any terms OTHER than those based on the American paradigm.

And those terms have to be based on movement from the current position, not from absolutes.

[Captain Peabody]

Yipee! Super Tuesday is here...


To all ye in today's states....vote early, and vote often! Do your civic duty...


...as long as you're not planning to vote for the wrong person. In that case, the primary just got moved to March. Pass it on...

[Mikey]

vote early, and vote often!

Ah, Chicago politics...

In all seriousness, to all Americans here - vote. It's not a task or a chore, it's a right and a privelege. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir considering the probable make-up of readers here, but remember - if you fail to make your voice heard when the time has come for it, you have no right to complain about the outcome later.

[Enkidu]

What's turnout like in the States? Tends to be between 35 - 40% (give or take) in the UK for a General Election.

[Mikey]

I don't have exact figures at hand to give you, but I can tell you that it does vary wildly based on region and demographics. If voter turnout were consistently 50% + across the board, you'd never see a Republican in office in the US. Turnout tends to be lower in urban a/o depressed areas, and among minorities. In fact, in party v. party electiosn, much of the Democratic side's efforts are often spent towards getting voters to turn out in those areas.

[Sionnach Glic]

If I may be stupid for a moment, why is today so special?

[sunnyside]

Actually voter turn out for a presidential election tends to be over 50% (I think 64% in 2004). And for some reason some midwestern states get it over 75%.

Though Mikey might have meant across all demographics, "young voter" turnout was 36% in 2000 and they called it a "surge" to get 47% in 2004).

Bear in mind that this is the demographic from the poll in the other thread that thought Sherlock Holems was real and Churchill was made up. So I don't really consider low voter turnout there a bad thing....

EDIT: Today is "Super Tuesday". Until now states have been have been voting on who the democrate and republican candidates will be roughly one at a time and with space in between. Today about half of the states are voting all at the same time. So there is a good chance that by tomorrow we'll know who the candidates for president will be.

If it stays close than I imagine things will get crazy in states like mine that haven't gone yet.

[Sionnach Glic]

Okay, thanks Sunny.

[Deepcrush]

What's turnout like in the States? Tends to be between 35 - 40% (give or take) in the UK for a General Election.

Last time it was just under 50%

[sunnyside]

Romney's out!