Reliant121 wrote:We are Klingons. The words of a race whose interest is rightfully only their own carry little weight with us. We do things our way, or not at all.
IT IS INTERESTING TO KNOW THAT THE KLINGON EMPIRE BELIEVES IT CAN DICTATE A SITUATION THAT IS, QUITE FRANKLY, NONE OF ITS BUSINESS. YOUR RECOGNITION OF SAID EMBARGO IS IRRELIVANT, AS IT EXISTS.
HOWEVER, IT IS RATHER INTERESTING THAT THE KLINGONS ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE ATTEMPTING TO FORCE THE ISSUE OF SENDING THEIR SHIPS INTO A SECURE ZONE. IT SEEMS LIKE TIME MAY BE A PRESSING MATTER. IS THERE PERHAPS SOMETHING YOU NEED TO RETRIEVE BEFORE OUR INVESTIGATION AND SEARCH IS CONCLUDED?
BECAUSE, I CAN ASSURE YOU SIR, THAT IF YOUR SHIPS VIOLATE THIS ZONE, AND THEN WE FIND NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, IT WILL LOOK RATHER SUSPISCIOUS TO THE GALAXY AT LARGE.
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
I care about my people, not your pathetic excuse for accusation. The WMD will be there if you are justified, or not because they do not exist. You can be as suspicious as you want, I care not. The zone is anything but secure. In case you had not yet noticed, you have failed to truly take their territory and have only seized a single planet. I'd hardly call it secure. Besides, we have had no proof of such WMD so the Galaxy does not even know if they exist. Why would the Galaxy be suspicious, if for all intents and purposes it does not know whether you were simply lying so you could expand your territories in greed?
We cannot dictate, no. That is why we haven't told you to stop your war, told the Yrridians to surrender. I am content to let you destroy one another, or for one to fall as the other succeeds. It is the order of things. But I care about Klingon, and Federation, lives. Frankly, I cannot and still do not trust you to return our people safely. That is why I force the issue.
I propose that a Klingon or Federation ship, with a detachment of Tholians to observe and protect the observers, retrieves the diplomatic staff of the Federation and Klingon powers.
Reliant121 wrote:
I propose that a Klingon or Federation ship, with a detachment of Tholians to observe and protect the observers, retrieves the diplomatic staff of the Federation and Klingon powers.
The Federation must echo this request and add that it is essentialy that commuincation be allowed prior to such an endavour with the Yrridian government, lest they mistake a simple diplomatic retreival with another attack and spread this incident further.
WHAT TREATY, CLAUSE, OR GALACTIC LAW REQUIRES THE THOLIAN EMPIRE TO PROVE SOMETHING TO THE GALAXY AT LARGE REGARDING A MATTER DIRECTLY RELATING TO THE THOLIAN EMPIRE?
WE HAVE OFFERED YOU A SOLUTION IN WHICH YOU CAN COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR AMBASSADORS. YOUR GOVERNMENTS ARE NOT ACCEPTING IT.
YES, WE HAVE SECURED ONCE YRRIDIAN WORLD AT THIS POINT. THE KLINGONS HAVE WONDERED ALOUD IF THERE WERE WEAPONS, WHY ARE THEY NOT BEING DEPLOYED? THE ANSWER IS THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA. PERHAPS THEY ARE WAITING FOR OUTSIDE INSTUCTIONS? PERHAPS THEY ARE WAITING TO SEE IF THEY WILL GARNER OUTSIDE SUPPORT AND PLAY THE ROLE OF THE VICTIM? THE PEOPLE OF THOLIA ARE NOT MIND READERS. ALL THAT WE CAN SAY IS THAT WE HAVE AVOIDED EVERY INTERSTELLAR CONFLICT TO DATE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SELLING AN ANCIENT FLEET TO A THIRD RATE POWER. WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T SEND IN ACTIVE DUTY THOLIAN WARSHIPS WITH WEAPONS FIRING.
WE WILL AGAIN PROVIDE A COUNTER OFFER. PUT TOGETHER A DIPLOMATIC PACKAGE BROADCASTING FEDERATON AND KLINGON PRESENSE ON BOARD A LONE THOLIAN SHIP. WHILE WE ARE CLOAKED WE ARE IN LITTLE DANGER. IF THEY AGREE TO THE REQUEST TO REMOVE THE AMBASSADORIAL STAFF, THEN WE SHALL DECLOAK RETRIEVE YOUR PERSONEL, AND DEPART IN PEACE.
THIS IS MORE EFFORT THAN WAS EXPENDED TO ATTEMPT AND RETRIEVE YOUR PERSONEL FROM THE BREEN EMBASSY, THE CARDASSIAN EMBASSY, THE TZENKATHI OR THE TALAIRIAN EMBASSIES. THEIR RETRIEVAL WASN'T QUITE AS PRESSING A MATTER THEN IT SEEMS, FOR SOME REASON.
AGAIN, YOUR SHIPS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO CROSS INTO THE THOLIAN OR YRRIDIAN SPACE WITHOUT IT BEING CONSTSTRUED AS AN ACT OF HOSTILITY.
WE HAVE PUT FORTH SEVERAL SUGGESTIONS. DO YOU HAVE ANY THAT WILL MAKE ALL PARTIES CONTENTED?
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
It seems to me that both sides are saying the same thing, and neither side is really paying attention to entire statements but getting hung up at one point or another.
The Federation and Klingons wish to contact there embassies, and to an extent the Yrridian government, to prepare them for extraction (their people, not the Yrridians). The Tholian government is quite willing to allow this in the form of a message that they can review (which makes sense, to prevent alleged parties from sneaking in attack orders). After which they would extract the people and return them to you. They also are willing to allow representatives from both parties to observe the extraction in person, on board the Tholian vessels.
In short, they have offered exactly what you have asked (in a form). Just accept already.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
We recognise the Tholian Empire's counter offer as a step forward.
And summarily reject it. The Empire will not accept the Tholian claim to providing safety. We will not cross the border in an attempt to rescue the diplomatic staff. But, rest assured, if Our diplomatic staff are harmed by Tholian hands, the repercussions will be severe.
We must echo again the concerns of the Klingon Empire. Since we cannot arrange the safe transport of our people out of the capital system we will simply state that we expect international laws to be followed. If our people are harmed or foreign personel were to enter our embassy we would have to examine a full range of options avaliable to us for redress.
WHAT INTERNATIONAL LAW ARE YOU REFERRING TOO? THE THOLIAN EMPIRE HAS SIGNED TO SUCH TREATIES WITH ANY POWER.
HOWEVER, REST ASSURED THAT WE INTEND NO HARM TO ANY OF YOUR PEOPLE. WE ENJOY OUR CURRENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE KLINGON EMPIRE WHICH HAS BEEN STEADELY IMPROVING, AND ARE CONTENT WITH OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FEDERATION.
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
IN RESPONSE TO A PREVIOUS QUESTION FROM THE FEDERATION, AS TO WHAT DIPLOMATIC AGREEMENTS WERE SNUBBED, THERE WAS OUR FORMAL DE-MILITERIZED ZONE, OUR PROPOSED MUTUAL DEFENSE SUGGESTION, AND OUR PROPOSED NON AGGRESSION TREATY. EACH WAS PROPOSED, AND SUMMARILY IGNORED.
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
The Federation simply was not interested in those things with the Tholian Empire.
1. We won't sign non-aggression treaties with anyone as a matter of national policy. They are worthless scraps of paper used to hamstring powers that would follow a treaty and do nothing but confer advantages to those who will use such document as a shield for other aggressive action. We have rejected all such proposals from all powers.
2. We see no need for a formal de-militarized zone either. Our people have not been in armed conflict for many year.
3. We have no interest in being obligated to come to the defense of the Tholian Empire given that the only likely major powers you might find conflict with are both our allies.
4. Neither a mutual defense treaty nor a non-aggression treaty would be consistent with our obligations to the above mentioned allies. This is clear from the public text of the documents.
The fact that the Tholian Empire has not gotten what it wished does not mean they were snubbed. Other nations simply harbor other ideas of what is in their best interest. We have worked productively with the Tholian Empire in the past on issues such as trade and colonization and even international peace. To highlight issues where we have elected not to move forward and claim you have been snubbed seems quite a childish exercise when one is engaged in a war.
Mark wrote:A FLEET OF JACORN SHIPS WERE DISCOVERED OPERATING IN YRRIDIAN SPACE.
UPON DISCOVERY THEY OPENED FIRE ON THOLIAN FORCES AND ATTEMPTED TO COMPLETELY ELIMINATE THE TASK FORCE THAT DISCOVERED THEM.
Condan wrote:Our vessels opened fire on yours only after they began orbital bombardement of the planet.
Tyyr wrote:So the Jacorn have invited themselves into the war? You admit that the Tholians took no hostile actions towards your ships?
mark wrote:
Condan1993 wrote:Our vessels opened fire on yours only after they began orbital bombardement of the planet.
YOUR VESSELS WERE KNOWINGLY IN A THOLIAN MILITARY ZONE, INTERFERRING IN ACTIONS TAKEN TO INVESTIGATE AND NEUTRILIZE A THREAT POSED BY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. ONE CANNOT NOW HELP BUT WONDER HOW LONG THE JACORN HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS MATTER. OR PERHAPS WERE THE JACORN ATTEMPTING TO REMOVE SAID WEAPONS BEFORE WE COULD TRACE THEM TO THEIR POINT OF ORIGIN?
BIG wrote:It strikes the Federation that the Jacorn have at the very least met the same standard of proof that the Tholians made when they launched the assault in the first place. At the very least they move in the name of defending rather than subjugating a people. The Tholian ambassador seems quite upset that their campaign against a largely defenseless people (excepting the WMD's which they supposedly possess but have not used even as you overrun their worlds) has now run into proper military opposition.
And at this point the unsupport accusations against others for supplying WMD's to a power of an unknown type for unknown reasons in unknown numbers that are being kept in unknown locations and despite the greatest danger imaginable befalling the Yrridian people have STILL not be utilized NOR found are growing tiresome. This affair at the moment is a local conflict between the Tholians and the Jacorn. Your accusations do nothing but threaten to spread the war. So long as the conflict remains localized within Yrridian space we have little direct concern with it excepting the safety of our people on the Yrridian capitol system, for which we hold the Tholians personally responsible.
We suggest the Tholians think long and hard before spreading their accusations and armed hunt for these mythical WMD's to either of our allies space as it could have the most sever consequences for all involved.
Reliant wrote:::: Howls with laughter :::
There is an immeasurable beauty in watching the Tholian Empire squirm. The Yridians posed little threat and so the Tholians smugly and defiantly walzed into their territory and simply cast their petulant eyes on whatever they pleased. And now, when someone actually decides to step in and fight to preserve their own skins by stopping the Tholians in their "security conquest", the crystal crabs begin to cry and whine to the international community.
You are like a child bully, happy to pick on infants who are below you in size and power but cannot take it when one decides to treat you as you treat them. You would do well to invade others and fight only when you have developed the grace and maturity to take it when someone does the damnest thing: fight back.
Condan wrote:
Mark wrote: YOUR VESSELS WERE KNOWINGLY IN A THOLIAN MILITARY ZONE,
Our vessels were there in defence of Yrridian civilians
Mark wrote: ONE CANNOT NOW HELP BUT WONDER HOW LONG THE JACORN HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS MATTER.
Little over a month before your invasion, or Two days ago, when our ships entered Yrridian territory, depending on your point of view.
We were contacted by the Yrridian Government, who feared you were implicating them in illegal activity. Clearly one of you is lying, we were attempting to find out who.
Mark wrote:HOW....INTERESTING.
DID IT OCCUR TO YOU TO CONTACT THE THOLIAN GOVERNMENT BEFORE ENGAGING IN AN ACT OF WAR?
WE HAVE A MORE LOGICAL THEORY.
THE JACORN PROVIDED SAID WEAPONS TO THE YRRIDIANS IN AN ATTEMPT TO DESTABILIZE THE EMPIRE THROUGH SUBTERFUGE. AS THOLIAN FORCES CLOSED IN ON SAID WEAPONS THE JACORN INTERVIENED TO COVER "THEIR TRACKS" AS IT WERE.
IT IS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE JACORN DEPLOYED A NEW WEAPON OF MASSIVE DESTRUCTIVE CABAILITY WHILE ENGAGED WITH THOLIAN FORCES. AN ODD COINCIDENCE TO BE SURE. ESPECIALLY AS JACORN FORCES DIDN'T CONTACT A SINGLE THOLIAN SHIP, AND ATTEMPTED TO ELIMINATE EVERY LAST SHIP SO THERE WOULD BE NO WITNESSES. ONLY OUR TECHNOLOGY ALLOWED THREE SHIPS TO ESCAPE.
WE WILL NOT ALLOW THIS TO DETER US. WE WILL HAVE THE TRUTH OF WHO IS WORKING WITH THE YRRIDIANS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT FORCE WE MUST USE.
BIG wrote:Once again we must point out that it strikes us as very odd that the Tholian government only mentions this use of a WMD against their ships after a number of communications on the subject. Given how worked up they appear to be about the subject we are a bit perplexed as to why it would not be included in the initial communication.
One might be forgiven for thinking that they are simply throwing out accusations at this point hoping that something sticks. So far we have heard the Klingons and Jacorn of supplying these weapons of unknown type, in unknown quantity for a secret mission that as described by the Tholian government makes no sense at all for the Yrridians. Color us unconvinced.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
THE SNUBBING CONSISTED OF SIMPLY IGNORNING COMMUNICATIONS. QUITE FRANKLY, WE HAVE LITTLE INTEREST IN NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE FEDERATION. HOWEVER, NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE KLINGON EMPIRE HAVE BEEN....HINDERED, AS THEY ARE BOUND IN ALLIANCE TO THE FEDERATION.
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
I am the Leader of the Yrridian People, I have today regained the ability to speak publicly thanks to our Jacorn saviors.
Just over two years ago a large group of Yrridian terrorists were arrested for treason after they caused permanent damage to the Yrridian Communication Systems, namely the subspace transmitters, which prevented our sending of subspace communications. We speak now using the comm systems of the Jacorn vessels. We have learned that the Tholians have attacked us and claim this to be a pre-emptive action to stop our deploying of a Weapon of Mass Destruction.
This is a Lie. We have no motivation for such an attack, nor the means by which to develop a Weapon of Mass Destruction. We are just now being informed of the massive death toll on our worlds. We have suffered massive losses with literally billions of our civilian population dead, and many hundreds of millions more in critical condition. We have no means to defend ourselves and only exist today thanks to the bold action of the Jacorn Alliance in defending us.
I beg the Quadrant to use your influence to stop this violence against our people before there is nothing left of us.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
It seems this might be a useful time for a break from hostilities and a bit of frank discussion on just what has occured here.
So far the Tholians have implied or accused both of the Federations allies of supplying the Yrridians with a WMD. So far, as far as we can tell, no such weapon has been found.
Going further the Tholians then accused the Jacron of actually using a WMD against them. This claim is pure rubbish. The Federation is aware of the type of weapon used and to claim it as a WMD would be similar to the Federation claiming that the Polaron Beams used by the Dominion were weapons of mass destruction simply because they were effective.
Now we hear reports of widespread civilian deaths on Yrridian worlds.
The behaviour of the Tholian government at the very least merits questioning by the international community. The accusation of WMD use against the Jacorn is the most serious claim one nation-state can make against another. Such unsubstantiated and indeed outright incorrect accusations could lead to escalation of what is a minor regional conflict into an exchange of WMD's by two powerful nation states and in doing so would put tens of billions of lives at risk. As such that statement should rightly be retracted with all haste by the Tholian Empire.
Futhermore it seems very odd indeed that after more than a year of conflict that the supposed WMD in the possession of the Yrridians has neither been used nor found. In fact the type of weapon has not even been identified. When coupled with the Tholian Empire classifying a weapon that clear does not meet the definition of a WMD as one in recent statements we are left to wonder what it is they might be looking for. Is it a true WMD or just a regular weapons project?
There seem to be a large amount of unanswered questions here. The longer this goes on the more it appears that the situation was not as it was told by the Tholian government. Indeed the story has changed so many times it is hard to tell exactly what it is the Yrridians and others are accused of having done.
[Mark's still having internet issues so consider this as being posted by Mark]
THOLIAN EMPIRE
WE WILL MAKE THIS OFFER TO THE YRRIDIAN PEOPLE ONLY ONCE. TURN OVER YOUR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PLOTTING AGAINST THE THOLIAN EMPIRE, AND ANY WHO WORKED ON THE WMD. THESE PEOPLE WILL BE TAKEN INTO THOLIAN CUSTODY AND WE WILL WITHDRAW FROM YOUR SPACE AND WILL HAND CONTROL OF YOUR WORLDS BACK TO YOUR NEW GOVERNMENT.
WE HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE YRRIDIAN PEOPLES THEMSELVES; HOWEVER WE WILL NOT TOLERATE THE CONTINUATION OF A GOVERNMENT WHICH HAS PLANNED ATTACKS OF HORRIFIC SCALES AGAINST US AND OUR PEOPLE.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
