How big SHOULD the Federation Fleet be?

[Atekimogus]

You're own picture counters this since the ship under construction in the very front is a Excelsior Mk-II

What is an Excelsior Mk-II? If you mean the E-B Variant, this seems not to be the case.

Actually, that proves nothing. That ship could have been in for upgrades, repairs, refitting, anything.

Indeed. Maybe that vessel was just upgraded to Lakota standards. I bellieve the NX-1 is the only ship beeing built within such a spacedock, all the other times we see a similar design ships are only upgraded. I would imagine that all the ships in the picture are just in for upgrades, with the shipbuilding facilities located partly on the ground and in the larger spacedocks.

And I doubt they still build excelsiors in later half of 24th century.

They probably do, given that the Ex-class Melbourne has a higher registry number than many Nebula class ships.

Well, the registry number might be an indicator but I guess it is not definite proof. I am in two on this topic, on the one hand they built supposedly highly modular ships with estimated lifespans of 100 years+ and we even see some of them beeing upgraded to the latest technological standards (Lakota) and if you can do that I see no reason we you shouldn't contine to build a true and tested design with the latest technology. On the other hand - in some cases like the excelsior - they are 80 year old designs....... . Given the rate at which they spew out new designs (far to fast in later Trek imho) it seems odd that they even DESIGN ships anymore with such long lifespans.

[Deepcrush]

What is an Excelsior Mk-II? If you mean the E-B Variant, this seems not to be the case.

The Ent-B is the Mk-II Excelsior is it is the case.

[Atekimogus]

Well seems like a standard excelsior to me. Since we don't see the secondary hull or the impulse drive the only clue would be the warp nacelles and those seem pretty standard to me, or have I missed any other indicater for the E-B variant?

[Deepcrush]

The extended impulse drives.

[stitch626]

Actually, that is the standard Excelsior. It does not have the huge impulse engines flanking the standard ones.

[Deepcrush]

I'm looking at them now... they're there.

[stitch626]

The only impulse engines on that ship are the two main ones.
Heres a better pick.
Excelsior:

The one in that Pic:

E-B:


Hopefully you can see that on the middle one, the saucer continues to curve around uuntil it meets the main engines (like the original). Also, the ring of color around the bridge is identical with the original Excelsior, rather than like the E-B.

[Deepcrush]

What is it I'm supposed to trust with comparing a CGI image to a child's plastic toy model?

[stitch626]

Because those models show it at the best angle, and are identical (at least for the parts that matter) to the CGI/studio models. But to make you happy, I'll scrounge around for the real pics.

[Deepcrush]

Because those models show it at the best angle, and are identical (at least for the parts that matter) to the CGI/studio models. But to make you happy, I'll scrounge around for the real pics.

If you want, doesn't change the original point that their is an Excelsior under construction.

[stitch626]

Here is the Lakota studio model (same as E-B for the most part).


Here is the Excelsior model, highlighting the hull detail difference with the Lakota around the bridge area.


Quite clearly, the hull detailing on that Excelsior is very close to the original (can't say identical cause the pic quality isn't too great).
Also the larger engines which should be quite visible are not.

If you want, doesn't change the original point that their is an Excelsior under construction.

Of course, and I won't argue that.

[Deepcrush]

You might be right, that might be a Mk-I.

[Atekimogus]

Maybe its just refitted, who knows. It might stretch it a bit if we assume they still build excelsiors during the voyager time frame. Altough I would have no problem with it whatsoever I would imagine that if they really built new ships based on the excelsior frame (why not, seems to be a durable) they would have at same point incooperated a few new design features, like phaser stripes. And altough this might be not an option for existing ships like the Lakota, I would assume that the advantage of phaserstripes compared to the ball turrets is such that it would justify a bit of redesign-work.

So my bet is that the ship in the picture is just in the process of being upgraded. What was the original point again....damn those beautiful and distracting pictures

[Mikey]

Well by providing those pics, it seems that Picard's point was that he can determine the exact fleet strength of Starfleet by the fact that... ships get fixed sometimes.

[Reliant121]

I was going to say, the fact that the Excelsior (it looks like an type-A to me, but I'm hardly an expert) is no proof that the are building it. That ship, from what is visible and not obscured, is fully constructed so it's just as easy to say that they are doing a refit. There's no proof its a fresh build, or its a refit/repair.