BETA SIM OOC THREAD

[Tyyr]

Given what it costs to raise troops in this sim I'm wondering where the hell these independent planets got the cash to raise that much of a ground army.

[Lt. Staplic]

Given what it costs to raise troops in this sim I'm wondering where the hell these independent planets got the cash to raise that much of a ground army.

Well the army is actually quite small, and mostly drivin by hate (as such they have slowly degraded in level from elete to crack to regular to militia) however a lot of their power comes from the fact that the able bodied that wish to fight have the means to do so....their incredibly inefficient, however their also incredibly numerous.

[stitch626]

Its like facing a whole planet of the Taliban.

[Tyyr]

The next time someone *COUGH*Big*COUGH* whines about bombarding someone from orbit I'm telling them to go fuck themselves.

[BigJKU316]

The next time someone *COUGH*Big*COUGH* whines about bombarding someone from orbit I'm telling them to go f**k themselves.

Hey, you are the one who just invaded Iwo Jima without bothering to use fire support. Never said you can't bombard them, just that the UFP won't like it. That is not my call, it is the peoples I think.

[Tyyr]

I did have fire support, the bastards went in and hid in the cities which I had specifically said, "No torps," for but disruptors were allowed. I am still trying to not completely go Stalin on these people.

Fuck this. Next time I'm telling them, "Capture if you can, level if you must, I stopped giving a shit."

[BigJKU316]

Yeah, I am not really sure how one manages to invade a planet that has decided to fight you like the Japanese did in the late stages of the Pacific War. The cost would just be staggering unless you level most of the major cities. In part in the sim it is a result of the decision to limit the number of worlds to a few dozen for most powers and concentrate the populations there. Other than the colonies there are not many empty worlds that one can grab and set a foothold in.

The other choice was to have a bunch of the little 300,000 person colonies scattered around, but it just made the map too busy. As much as anything though the density of major and minor planets is a result of this concession.

And really I think troops are quite cheap. Some transport cost was built into their construction but in reality how many starships would it take to move a 20 or 30 million man force? The cost of that alone would be staggering I would think.

[Tyyr]

Yeah but add that cost to moving them around. For 250 credits I can build an 800kt destroyer or 1,000 elite troops. Even assuming it cost a million dollars a piece to train and equip those guys that's a billion dollars. Now today an Arleigh Burke class destroyer costs about $700 million to build an another $500 million to completely fit out with it's weapons. The thing only weighs in at ~9,200 tons or 9.2 kt or 1.15% the size of my 800kt destroyer... and the Arleigh Burke is an ocean going mid twentieth century vessel and my destroyer is a relativity raping starship capable of traveling thousands of light years and protecting itself with energy shields while firing off torpedoes of which one volley more powerful than the sum total of all weaponry fired by man up to this point in history. And I can build it for less than the cost of a single modern destroyer.

Either starships are waaay too cheap (which I don't think so) or ground troops cost WAAAAAAY too much by about a factor of ten. Hell, even figuring in that training troops also builds transports for them as well they cost too much if all your building is the equivalent of a container ship. If all you're building is a big ship with a warp engine, life support, and some minimal shielding, armor, and weaponry it's not going to cost you that much. You don't have to have amenities, the ability to fight, or even all that much speed. You're talking about the equivalent of an interstellar school bus not an M1 Abrams.

Now if you want to make us pay for the ability to move troops around I'm cool with that. Let me have control over it though. Make troops dirt cheap but stuck on the planet they are created on. If I want to move them I either have to dedicate warships to the job and they're limited to say... 10 troops per ton of ship which would require you to use almost your entire fleet to move even a portion of your army, or I can build dedicated transports that can move like 200 a ton since they're set up for it. The benefit for me is that if all I want is a garrison I don't have to build transports. I can raise a significant number of troops on a world and leave them as a garrison. If I want to move them eventually I can build transports, but as soon as they roll off the assembly lines I can put them in mothballs waiting for me to decide I need them to move.

It's not even that odd, it's exactly how the US was set up to fight WWIII in Europe. Ships for moving men and material were built then put in reserve or allowed to move other things around under civilian control until a war happened, then the reserve ships are activated and the civilian ones brought under military command and put to work. It allowed the US to maintain a large sealift ability without the cost of building it and keeping it permanently in service and on call which is what it seems like you're suggesting we are doing in the sim.

As for the situation on the Breen worlds, I should have stomped them when I had the chance at the begining. Though just blowing away anything important on the worlds that were done and then invading them slowly world by world leveling any opposition. Trying to reason with them and not rain down untold death and destruction is apprently not seen in a good light.

[BigJKU316]

Yeah, I originally had a troop transport module put into the sheet. It just did not make the cut with the timetable I was working under then. I considered just making it simple and letting you pay for a troop transport capacity that could be used from any of your ports where you simply paid for capacity and speed of transport but scrapped that as well and just went with expensive troops.

[Tyyr]

How about instead of that, have a "Deployed" category right under the worlds. Troops stationed on planets are considered garrisoned and upkeep and cost is minimal. Troops in the Deployed category are being moved. They can either be redeployed to other worlds where they become part of the garrison or are available for attacks. Troops in that category pay large upkeep to reflect the cost of keeping them fighting and of drafting or building the necessary ships to move them.

[Lt. Staplic]

I've only gotten Federation and Hyllus Turns.

[Tyyr]

I'll have it in tonight.

[Mark]

Crap.....I'll get mine in ASAP tomorrow. My boss was on my case all day, and it slipped my mind.

[Sonic Glitch]

I've only gotten Federation and Hyllus Turns.

Oops, knew I forgot something

[BigJKU316]

How about instead of that, have a "Deployed" category right under the worlds. Troops stationed on planets are considered garrisoned and upkeep and cost is minimal. Troops in the Deployed category are being moved. They can either be redeployed to other worlds where they become part of the garrison or are available for attacks. Troops in that category pay large upkeep to reflect the cost of keeping them fighting and of drafting or building the necessary ships to move them.

This makes sense. I think what works best here is to just cut the cost of troops by quite a bit and then insert a small module somewhere for transport cost. My thinking was each power just pays for X capacity and Y speed and the sheet figures a cost. Seems the simplest way to solve the issue.