BETA SIM IC THREAD

[Nickswitz]

We scoff at the Federation claims, they wish to progress their needs and those of their allies whoever they may be at the time. They proved that by forcing us into a position that we were forced to raise our taxes to the highest levels in centuries, as well as the need to take out an enormous loan to cover our debt we incurred in order to remain available on a galactic scale. If the Federation wishes to claim to want to help all those in the Galaxy they had better stick to that claim, we currently have gone through the worst year in centuries, all because the Federation wish to go against all those who do not bend to their will.

[BigJKU316]

We scoff at the Federation claims, they wish to progress their needs and those of their allies whoever they may be at the time. They proved that by forcing us into a position that we were forced to raise our taxes to the highest levels in centuries, as well as the need to take out an enormous loan to cover our debt we incurred in order to remain available on a galactic scale. If the Federation wishes to claim to want to help all those in the Galaxy they had better stick to that claim, we currently have gone through the worst year in centuries, all because the Federation wish to go against all those who do not bend to their will.

The Romulan Star Empire, which held itself in isolation for nearly half of the recorded history of the Federation at various times, is actually going to have the gall to stand up and blame a closed border with the Federation that restricts its trade ability as casuing the worst year in centuries? Are we interpreting this correctly? This seems an odd accusation given that for long stretches of time the Empire would not trade with, much less speak to, other powers simply because it did not wish to.

That you incur expense from the inefficiency of your government is hardly our problem. We are not going to get invovled in the internal matters of other nations. Perhapse the Romulan government should take more care with its finances?

If and when one empire threatens another then we shall voice our opinion as is the right of every power in the region.

[Reliant121]

The Federation has no right to interfere with this war. This hostility between Breen and Cardassia stems from the Dominion war. The Federation, the Klingons, The Romulans were victors by an honourable right of battle. They won because they deserved to win. As for Cardassia? What do they do? Switch sides when matters become too difficult for them, twist their allegiences when they see the writing on their walls.

The Federation cannot enter this conflict because it is not your right! No human life, no Vulcan life, no Andorian Life, no Tellarite life...No Federation life has been spared. Nor shall it be spared. The Federation has succeeded in the war, something we do not begrudge. It is your right to victory, and we respect it. We respect you. However, the Cardassians have no right to pleasure themselves in their borrowed glory. They have goaded, ridiculed and made false accusation agaisnt us ever since. They have boiled the frozen blood of every Breen from the Federation border to the coreward reaches of space. We will have vengeance. If it means the Federation must illegitimately assault us, illegitimately violate their own principles because they don't like it whenever someone threatens their imposed status quo then so be it. We will face that doom in the only way we know.

[Mark]

WHAT IS IT THAT THE FEDERATION IS SAYING? THAT IS WILL NO LONGER ABIDE BY IT'S VAUNTED PRIME DIRECTIVE, AND WILL BEGIN TO MORE OPENLY INTERFERE IN THE NATURAL DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER CULTURES? THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY SYMPETHIZES WITH THE CARDASSIAN GOVERNMENT, AND WILL PROVIDE ASSISTANCE AS BEST WE ARE ABLE SHOULD WE BE ASKED AND AN ACCOMIDATION BE REACHED. HOWEVER, IF WE ARE NOT ASKED, WE WILL NOT INTERFERE.

THE FEDERATION'S ARGUEMENT IS THAT SINCE THEY ARE THE MOST POWERFUL, THEY WILL DICTATE WHAT OTHER SOVERIGN POWERS CAN AND CANNOT DO, WHETHER WE WANT THEM TO OR NOT. SOMETIMES REPULSIVE DEEDS SUCH AS THIS MUST BE LEFT ALONE TO INTERNAL GOVERNMENTS, SIMPLY TO ALLOW THEM THE FREEDOM TO EXIST IN A MANNER THEY WISH. ACTING UNILATERALLY, BY TAKING A PERSONAL AFFRONT TO SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A GOVERNMENT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF FLEXING PROVERBIAL MUSCLES...THIS IS A STEPPING STONE TO EMPIRE, AND THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY FOR ONE WILL NOT ACCEPT FEDERATION RULE. WE HAVE WANTED NOTHING MORE THAN TO BE LEFT ALONE TO LIVE AS WE SEE FIT.

[Nickswitz]

Our government has changed since the centuries that it has isolated itself. And yes, we do blame your insistence on us transforming our government in order to allow any trade from us to any other power for our worst year. So yes, your imperial stance toward the galaxy has caused our worst year in centuries.

[BigJKU316]

WHAT IS IT THAT THE FEDERATION IS SAYING? THAT IS WILL NO LONGER ABIDE BY IT'S VAUNTED PRIME DIRECTIVE, AND WILL BEGIN TO MORE OPENLY INTERFERE IN THE NATURAL DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER CULTURES? THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY SYMPETHIZES WITH THE CARDASSIAN GOVERNMENT, AND WILL PROVIDE ASSISTANCE AS BEST WE ARE ABLE SHOULD WE BE ASKED AND AN ACCOMIDATION BE REACHED. HOWEVER, IF WE ARE NOT ASKED, WE WILL NOT INTERFERE.

THE FEDERATION'S ARGUEMENT IS THAT SINCE THEY ARE THE MOST POWERFUL, THEY WILL DICTATE WHAT OTHER SOVERIGN POWERS CAN AND CANNOT DO, WHETHER WE WANT THEM TO OR NOT. SOMETIMES REPULSIVE DEEDS SUCH AS THIS MUST BE LEFT ALONE TO INTERNAL GOVERNMENTS, SIMPLY TO ALLOW THEM THE FREEDOM TO EXIST IN A MANNER THEY WISH. ACTING UNILATERALLY, BY TAKING A PERSONAL AFFRONT TO SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A GOVERNMENT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF FLEXING PROVERBIAL MUSCLES...THIS IS A STEPPING STONE TO EMPIRE, AND THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY FOR ONE WILL NOT ACCEPT FEDERATION RULE. WE HAVE WANTED NOTHING MORE THAN TO BE LEFT ALONE TO LIVE AS WE SEE FIT.

This is not an internal affair, thus your statement confuses us greatly. The Breen signed a treaty with the Federation and Cardassians which they have violated. Thus it concerns us as a matter of state. That they then responded to our request to explain this violation by telling us the treaty was worthless in their eyes only makes this state of affairs more regrettable in our view.

Internal Affairs, in our view, mean affairs containted entierly within the space or government of one recognized power. It is hardly a matter of internal affairs when another power violates a three party border treaty and rampages into another powers space.

[BigJKU316]

Our government has changed since the centuries that it has isolated itself. And yes, we do blame your insistence on us transforming our government in order to allow any trade from us to any other power for our worst year. So yes, your imperial stance toward the galaxy has caused our worst year in centuries.

Again, we never insisted that you transform your government. What you do is your business. We can choose to allow you access through or borders or not based on that. But we are not telling you what to do. Internal Romulan affairs are the buisiness of the Romulan people alone. We did not and will not ask you to do anything.

[Mark]

WHAT IS IT THAT THE FEDERATION IS SAYING? THAT IS WILL NO LONGER ABIDE BY IT'S VAUNTED PRIME DIRECTIVE, AND WILL BEGIN TO MORE OPENLY INTERFERE IN THE NATURAL DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER CULTURES? THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY SYMPETHIZES WITH THE CARDASSIAN GOVERNMENT, AND WILL PROVIDE ASSISTANCE AS BEST WE ARE ABLE SHOULD WE BE ASKED AND AN ACCOMIDATION BE REACHED. HOWEVER, IF WE ARE NOT ASKED, WE WILL NOT INTERFERE.

THE FEDERATION'S ARGUEMENT IS THAT SINCE THEY ARE THE MOST POWERFUL, THEY WILL DICTATE WHAT OTHER SOVERIGN POWERS CAN AND CANNOT DO, WHETHER WE WANT THEM TO OR NOT. SOMETIMES REPULSIVE DEEDS SUCH AS THIS MUST BE LEFT ALONE TO INTERNAL GOVERNMENTS, SIMPLY TO ALLOW THEM THE FREEDOM TO EXIST IN A MANNER THEY WISH. ACTING UNILATERALLY, BY TAKING A PERSONAL AFFRONT TO SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A GOVERNMENT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF FLEXING PROVERBIAL MUSCLES...THIS IS A STEPPING STONE TO EMPIRE, AND THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY FOR ONE WILL NOT ACCEPT FEDERATION RULE. WE HAVE WANTED NOTHING MORE THAN TO BE LEFT ALONE TO LIVE AS WE SEE FIT.

This is not an internal affair, thus your statement confuses us greatly. The Breen signed a treaty with the Federation and Cardassians which they have violated. Thus it concerns us as a matter of state. That they then responded to our request to explain this violation by telling us the treaty was worthless in their eyes only makes this state of affairs more regrettable in our view.

Internal Affairs, in our view, mean affairs containted entierly within the space or government of one recognized power. It is hardly a matter of internal affairs when another power violates a three party border treaty and rampages into another powers space.

A TREATY WAS SIGNED BY ALL PARTIES STATING THAT THE FEDERATION IS AUTHORISED TO TAKE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST A PARTY VIOLATING THE TREATY? THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY FOR ONE WOULD BE MOST INTERESTED IN SEEING THIS DOCUMENT.

[Reliant121]

No, it did not. The....offending document contained no such statements.

[BigJKU316]

WHAT IS IT THAT THE FEDERATION IS SAYING? THAT IS WILL NO LONGER ABIDE BY IT'S VAUNTED PRIME DIRECTIVE, AND WILL BEGIN TO MORE OPENLY INTERFERE IN THE NATURAL DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER CULTURES? THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY SYMPETHIZES WITH THE CARDASSIAN GOVERNMENT, AND WILL PROVIDE ASSISTANCE AS BEST WE ARE ABLE SHOULD WE BE ASKED AND AN ACCOMIDATION BE REACHED. HOWEVER, IF WE ARE NOT ASKED, WE WILL NOT INTERFERE.

THE FEDERATION'S ARGUEMENT IS THAT SINCE THEY ARE THE MOST POWERFUL, THEY WILL DICTATE WHAT OTHER SOVERIGN POWERS CAN AND CANNOT DO, WHETHER WE WANT THEM TO OR NOT. SOMETIMES REPULSIVE DEEDS SUCH AS THIS MUST BE LEFT ALONE TO INTERNAL GOVERNMENTS, SIMPLY TO ALLOW THEM THE FREEDOM TO EXIST IN A MANNER THEY WISH. ACTING UNILATERALLY, BY TAKING A PERSONAL AFFRONT TO SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A GOVERNMENT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF FLEXING PROVERBIAL MUSCLES...THIS IS A STEPPING STONE TO EMPIRE, AND THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY FOR ONE WILL NOT ACCEPT FEDERATION RULE. WE HAVE WANTED NOTHING MORE THAN TO BE LEFT ALONE TO LIVE AS WE SEE FIT.

This is not an internal affair, thus your statement confuses us greatly. The Breen signed a treaty with the Federation and Cardassians which they have violated. Thus it concerns us as a matter of state. That they then responded to our request to explain this violation by telling us the treaty was worthless in their eyes only makes this state of affairs more regrettable in our view.

Internal Affairs, in our view, mean affairs containted entierly within the space or government of one recognized power. It is hardly a matter of internal affairs when another power violates a three party border treaty and rampages into another powers space.

A TREATY WAS SIGNED BY ALL PARTIES STATING THAT THE FEDERATION IS AUTHORISED TO TAKE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST A PARTY VIOLATING THE TREATY? THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY FOR ONE WOULD BE MOST INTERESTED IN SEEING THIS DOCUMENT.

A treaty was signed stating that neither Breen, Cardassian or Federation vessels would enter a certain region of space without prior permission. That treaty was violated and done so to facilitate an invasion of the Cardassian Union.

We, like anyone else, do not necessitate the permission of a treaty for military action. We feel the violation itself and the subsequent aggression merit such action. Others are free to do as they please.

[Reliant121]

Your justification would ring true if we were to attack a Federation vessel or Federation world. We hold no interest in your planets. The aid of another empire is something which DOES belong in a treaty, a declaration of alliance.

[BigJKU316]

Your justification would ring true if we were to attack a Federation vessel or Federation world. We hold no interest in your planets. The aid of another empire is something which DOES belong in a treaty, a declaration of alliance.

You mean such as the one the Breen presented to the Federation prior to launching an attack on Earth? I suppose that transmission got lost enroute...

Again, we don't ask for any freedom we would deny another power. As a sovereign power we are free to enter into any alliance or agreement we wish at any point. Or to take actions we deem necessary at any point. Unlike the Breen we shall at least do others the courtesy of stating our intentions openly before striking.

[Reliant121]

And what purpose does that hold?

*I Am terribly sorry ol' chap but I think I might just blow your border station to bits and take over a few of your worlds*

You showed no such courtesy when your fleet assaulted the shipyards at the beginning of the Dominion War.

Your "right" to take actions you deem necessary are indeed correct. I do not see how the Federation may justify a war in which it is not threatened as "necessary". Unless of course, you have signed some form of backhand alliance with your puppy dog Cardassian counterpart.

[Mark]

IN POINT OF FACT, THE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS HAS NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO TAKE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST ANOTHER SOVERIGN POWER, UNLESS IN SELF DEFENSE OR IN DEFENSE OF ONE OF ITS ALLIES. YOUR FOUNDING CHARTER EXPRESSLY PROHIBITS INTERFERENCE, UP TO THE POINT WHEN YOUR ALLIES IN THE KLINGON EMPIRE WERE ENDURING A CIVIL WAR, ALL YOU WOULD DO WAS BLOCKADE THE BOARDER TO PREVENT ROMULAN AID.

IF AND WHEN THE VAUNTED FEDERATION PUBLICLY REPEALS THEIR PRIME DIRECTIVE, ONLY THEN WILL THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY CEASE TO OBJECT TO THESE DESCISIONS. OR, WHEN THE CARDASSIAN UNION PUBLICLY ASKS FOR FEDERATION INTERVENTION.

[BigJKU316]

IN POINT OF FACT, THE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS HAS NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO TAKE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST ANOTHER SOVERIGN POWER, UNLESS IN SELF DEFENSE OR IN DEFENSE OF ONE OF ITS ALLIES. YOUR FOUNDING CHARTER EXPRESSLY PROHIBITS INTERFERENCE, UP TO THE POINT WHEN YOUR ALLIES IN THE KLINGON EMPIRE WERE ENDURING A CIVIL WAR, ALL YOU WOULD DO WAS BLOCKADE THE BOARDER TO PREVENT ROMULAN AID.

IF AND WHEN THE VAUNTED FEDERATION PUBLICLY REPEALS THEIR PRIME DIRECTIVE, ONLY THEN WILL THE THOLIAN ASSEMBLY CEASE TO OBJECT TO THESE DESCISIONS. OR, WHEN THE CARDASSIAN UNION PUBLICLY ASKS FOR FEDERATION INTERVENTION.

The Prime Directive and its interpretation are a matter of internal law for the Federation and the council. We are not bound by the decisons of previous councils on matters.

However it is odd to compare non-interference in a CIVIL WAR with the current situation as they are quite different in nature. A Civil War, by its very nature, is an internal affair. Wars against other powers are not. The Federation has intervened numerous times in the past in such affairs, including when the Klingons attacked the Cardassian Union years ago.

So not only do we find your citation of the Klingon Civil War to be faulty logic but even if it were sound it would also have been repudiated by actions taken at a later date.