Weapons and Warfare

[Sionnach Glic]

One of the IRA guys also had a flamethrower, for reasons which were completely beyond me.

It was the guy with the catapult that had me confused.

WTF? I don't remember that!

How so?

They missed out on quite a bit of equipment that the Vikings were known to use. Though interestingly, you could see untested weapons lying around in various shots. It's possible that they only used the ones which they felt would look better on camera.

While not as well equipped as a legionnaire, the Gladiator experts could have brought in leather armor and tower shield. Which would have removed all of the Apache range advantage. Plus the sling, a fraking sling... really!

Remind me - which type of gladiator were they using for the match-up?

Oh, no doubt about it. The Apache would be lucky to get a kill at all.

Indeed. And were it legion Vs tribe it'd be even more of a slaughter.

The Green Beret vs. Spetznaz one was one of the most ridiculous ones they did.

The methods they used in that one were downright awful. They "tested" which grenade was better by placing them inside two different objects (one inside a wooden box and another inside a washing machine, IIRC). They also had the AK-47 and M-16 test fired by two completely different guys, and then based their accuracy results on that. Anyone care to spot the obvious problem here?

[Mikey]

Ah, so you agree with me but you just can't say you agree with me and there for just have to say you disagree with me... Good to know there was a whole point to that...

Nope, I have no problem saying (again) that I agree with most of what you said.

Can't argue that the show isn't entertaining.

I can. It's fun to see guys hack mannequins apart, but the match-ups are so ridiculous... and they use different metrics to compare things in the same category! I'd enjoy the show if I wasn't so infuriated by that. They also tend to ignore facts in favor of "cool" factor - e.g., the gave a huge advantage to the pirate for having a firearm, yet there are extant examples of medieval armor which show the marks and dents where they were proof against firearms. They never specified a 14th century knight or a 17th century one - in the case of the latter, a Savoyard siege suit would certainly be proof against a matchlock pistol.

I'd like to see them compare contemporaries, and ones in the same category at that, using correct systems of metrics. Green Beret versus Spetznatz? Ludicrous. Green Berets are Special Forces, while Spetznatz are DA special ops. Why wouldn't you compare them to the Rangers or SAS in that case?

[Tyyr]

Well the killer was that they "proved" in that episode that the pirate's pistols were largely useless against the knights armor and the blunderbuss only worked part of the time and at close range. And yet, the firearms were supposedly a huge advantage to the pirate.

[Lighthawk]

I hate the smack talk though. It's like the internet only now I have to look at and hear the idiot fanboys prattle on about how awesome their faction is. Shut the f**k up you wanna be poser.

It is rather silly to see "professional" weapon experts throwing down like a bunch of highschoolers before a game, isn't it?

[Tyyr]

Especially when they're re-enactors and not the weapons experts.

[Mikey]

While not as well equipped as a legionnaire, the Gladiator experts could have brought in leather armor and tower shield. Which would have removed all of the Apache range advantage.

Didn't they use a range of weapons other than just the gladius, though? If so, then they couldn't use a tall shield. The only gladiators to carry a tower shield were the murmillones and the secutores, and either type were only armed with a gladius.

[Lighthawk]

It's too bad they couldn't have found people more like the mythbusters to do the testing. The show is fun, but it could be great with better people in charge.

[Tyyr]

I think they're trying to have the testosterone and smack talk though. Which means you're pretty much stuck with the jackasses running it now.

Mythbusters might not be perfectly scientific, but they tend to go about it in a more controlled manner.

[Sionnach Glic]

Okay, I've just looked up the Gladiator V Apache and Taliban V IRA battles and.....just WTF?

The "gladiator" was little more than the most ahistorical amalgamation of stereotypes you could imagine, whose arse was apparently a TARDIS as he managed to pull a net and trident out of it at one point. Also, I love the awful editing where the shield teleports from being in the "gladiator"'s hand to slung over his back at three different points.

Though I did like the Apache's little "fuck this, I'm off" moment where he took one look at the "gladiator" who had just pulled an arrow out of his torso and decided to run for it.

And the IRA V Taliban one was worse than I remembered. Yes, there was a slingshot there, for some bizzare reason. I also loved the flamethrower-wielding IRA guy standing right next to the gigantic black tank with "oil and kerosene" painted on it.

[Lighthawk]

I think they're trying to have the testosterone and smack talk though. Which means you're pretty much stuck with the jackasses running it now.

Well it is spike tv...

Mythbusters might not be perfectly scientific, but they tend to go about it in a more controlled manner.

They at least make an effort at being scientific about things...right before they cram a bunch of C4 into the mix

[Sionnach Glic]

Jeez, you people post too fast.

While not as well equipped as a legionnaire, the Gladiator experts could have brought in leather armor and tower shield. Which would have removed all of the Apache range advantage.

Didn't they use a range of weapons other than just the gladius, though? If so, then they couldn't use a tall shield. The only gladiators to carry a tower shield were the murmillones and the secutores, and either type were only armed with a gladius.

In total, the "gladiator"'s weapons consisted of a sling (which I don't believe were ever used in the arenas), the curved sword of a thraces, a buckler-type shield, and the trident and net of a retarii. He also had the helmet of a murmillo, but no other armour.

[Mikey]

The "gladiator" was little more than the most ahistorical amalgamation of stereotypes you could imagine, whose arse was apparently a TARDIS as he managed to pull a net and trident out of it at one point. Also, I love the awful editing where the shield teleports from being in the "gladiator"'s hand to slung over his back at three different points.

In total, the "gladiator"'s weapons consisted of a sling (which I don't believe were ever used in the arenas), the curved sword of a thraces, a buckler-type shield, and the trident and net of a retarii. He also had the helmet of a murmillo, but no other armour.

Yeesh. OK, the thraxes did use a small shield. The retarii never used a shield of any type - interestingly enough, they almost universally only had two arms. And a helmet with a big fish on it tended to be pretty distinctive.

[Deepcrush]

First, before anything. In the season aftermath, the crew talks about the issues with "unused weapons". Being that if its in the lab and you see it, then it was tested. However the show is only so long and they can only fit some much in. As such they try to take the most effective weapons for the 20 minutes worth of air that each team gets.

They missed out on quite a bit of equipment that the Vikings were known to use. Though interestingly, you could see untested weapons lying around in various shots. It's possible that they only used the ones which they felt would look better on camera.

Okay, mostly covered above but the truth is they also left out a lot of weapons in use to the Samurai.

Remind me - which type of gladiator were they using for the match-up?

Not a type, but just any gladiator. AKA, if any gladiator had it then they were allowed to take it.

Well the killer was that they "proved" in that episode that the pirate's pistols were largely useless against the knights armor and the blunderbuss only worked part of the time and at close range. And yet, the firearms were supposedly a huge advantage to the pirate.

The clear problem being that they didn't factor the shield for the match, only the body armor. Also the grenado was counted as a killing weapon. Which it isn't against a fully armored Knight. This ep was riddled with problems to say the least.

It is rather silly to see "professional" weapon experts throwing down like a bunch of highschoolers before a game, isn't it?

Remember this is Spike TV and not History Channel for a reason.

Didn't they use a range of weapons other than just the gladius, though? If so, then they couldn't use a tall shield. The only gladiators to carry a tower shield were the murmillones and the secutores, and either type were only armed with a gladius.

The terms of the show stated that they were allowed to use anything a Roman Gladiator could get in the arena and carry on his own.

[Tyyr]

I agree the lack of shield was telling as the only penetrating weapon goes from a chance to be lethal to none, but that they gave the firearms any shot at all sort of ignores their own evidence.

[Sionnach Glic]

The "gladiator" was little more than the most ahistorical amalgamation of stereotypes you could imagine, whose arse was apparently a TARDIS as he managed to pull a net and trident out of it at one point. Also, I love the awful editing where the shield teleports from being in the "gladiator"'s hand to slung over his back at three different points.

In total, the "gladiator"'s weapons consisted of a sling (which I don't believe were ever used in the arenas), the curved sword of a thraces, a buckler-type shield, and the trident and net of a retarii. He also had the helmet of a murmillo, but no other armour.

Yeesh. OK, the thraxes did use a small shield. The retarii never used a shield of any type - interestingly enough, they almost universally only had two arms. And a helmet with a big fish on it tended to be pretty distinctive.

The thraxes used a small square-shaped shield, IIRC. I'll look that up in a minute.

First, before anything. In the season aftermath, the crew talks about the issues with "unused weapons". Being that if its in the lab and you see it, then it was tested. However the show is only so long and they can only fit some much in. As such they try to take the most effective weapons for the 20 minutes worth of air that each team gets.

Aye, well that's reasonable enough. Test them all, then just air the most camera-worthy ones.